[00:00:04] Speaker A: This Film Is lit, the podcast where we finally settle the score on one simple Is the book really better than the movie? I'm Brian and I have a film degree, so I watch the movie but don't read the book.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: And I'm Katie. I have an English degree, so I do things the right way and read the book before we watch the movie.
[00:00:22] Speaker A: So prepare to be wowed by our expertise and charm as we dissect all of your favorite film adaptations and decide if the silver screen the or the written word did it better. So turn it up, settle in, and get ready for spoilers because this film is lit.
What's the matter, Zane? I thought we were going to be buddies. It's Goosebumps. Night of the Living Dummy 3. And this film is lit.
Hello, and welcome back to this Film Is lit, the podcast where we talk about movies that are based on books and sometimes two episodes of a TV show from the late 90s that are based on books.
We have every single one of our segments. We're going to jump right in. If you have not read or. Well, I'll just go. Yeah, we'll get into it. I. Here's the summary.
[00:01:20] Speaker C: Let me explain.
No, there is too much. Let me sum up.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: I was gonna say if you have not read or watched, this isn't gonna be very helpful. There is not a Wikipedia episode for this episode or Wikipedia article for this episode.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: Yeah,
[00:01:33] Speaker A: I tried to find a wiki for this episode. There's a wiki for the book.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: So when I was doing research for the prequel episode, I would swear on my life, I found a wiki page for the TV episodes and it had a summary on it. And then I went back later and I couldn't find it again. So I don't know what I looked at.
[00:01:54] Speaker A: Okay. Cause when I was looking this morning, started copying and pasting one from a wiki, like. But then I was like, oh, this is the book,
[00:02:02] Speaker B: right?
[00:02:02] Speaker A: I realized after a second, and
[00:02:04] Speaker B: there are some significant and
[00:02:05] Speaker A: I'm sure there are differences, I didn't actually read it. I just realized I looked and saw the image. I was like, oh, this isn't for the TV show. This is for the book page or whatever. And so I didn't. So I ended up just copying all that to be said. I ended up just copying the like three sentence summary from the episode description on Wikipedia for the episode under the season anyways. But it's only like three sentences long, so it's not super helpful. But it does cover basically everything that happens after being taken to the Odell's family, who owns a collection of ventriloquist dummies, Slappy is brought back to life and plans to test out Zane, a cousin of Trina and Daniel. With the help of another dummy named Rocky, Slappy conspires to turn the three children into dummies. In the end, Slappy is destroyed by a lightning bolt.
[00:02:48] Speaker B: I mean, that pretty much is what happens.
[00:02:49] Speaker A: That's most of it. That covers a lot of it.
So that's the summary. Hopefully that was helpful. I don't think it'll be too much for you, but we do have a guess who this week. Let's do it.
[00:02:59] Speaker C: Who are you?
[00:03:01] Speaker D: No one of consequence.
[00:03:03] Speaker C: I must know.
[00:03:04] Speaker D: Get used to disappointment.
[00:03:07] Speaker B: He's short and very skinny. I think he looks like a mouse. He has short brown hair, dark eyes and a pointy chin.
[00:03:16] Speaker A: Daniel.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:03:17] Speaker A: Nailed it.
That. I assume this is from the perspective of the sister.
Oh, maybe
[00:03:22] Speaker B: not Spoilers.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: That's my guess. I just.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: I'm tall and I have curly red hair and green eyes. I'm a little chubby, but mom says not to worry about it.
[00:03:35] Speaker A: I'll
[00:03:36] Speaker B: probably slim down by the time I'm 13.
[00:03:39] Speaker A: That would be Trina.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:03:41] Speaker A: She's blonde in the.
[00:03:42] Speaker B: She is.
[00:03:43] Speaker A: And not a little chubby. I wouldn't say.
[00:03:45] Speaker B: I
[00:03:45] Speaker A: don't think in the. In the. In the TV show. But yeah, that seemed obvious. Okay.
[00:03:49] Speaker B: It had wavy brown hair painted on top of its head. The face was kind of strange, kind of intense.
The eyes were bright blue. They shimmered sort of like real eyes.
It had bright red painted lips curved up into a smile. An ugly smile. I thought.
[00:04:09] Speaker A: I feel pretty confident saying that. That's slappy.
[00:04:12] Speaker B: That is slappy.
[00:04:13] Speaker A: I mean the, the whatever the. I don't know the term for a pronoun. That is it. Or the. But the description was very clear. They were talking about an object and
[00:04:22] Speaker B: not a
[00:04:23] Speaker A: person.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: Couldn't resist. Including the description of Slappy,
[00:04:26] Speaker A: obviously. I mean, and also if you've read the book, he's all over the COVID He's one. And we mentioned in the prequel episode he's one of the kind of de facto masked
[00:04:35] Speaker B: out. Yeah, he's like the pillar characters
[00:04:38] Speaker A: and so you probably know what he looks like. He's also just based on a very traditional ventriloquist dummy. So yeah,
[00:04:45] Speaker B: he's big and beefy, not tall. He's built kind of like a bulldog. A big blonde bulldog.
I guess he's actually good looking. He has round blue eyes, wavy blonde hair. And a nice smile.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: I mean, I gotta assume this is Zane.
[00:05:03] Speaker B: It is Zane. I
[00:05:04] Speaker A: don't know who else it would be unless we're talking about a parent, but Zane. Okay.
Yeah. They made it. He's not. He's very thin. Oh,
[00:05:11] Speaker B: yeah. I wouldn't say he's kind
[00:05:12] Speaker A: of
[00:05:12] Speaker B: scrawny, but he is blonde.
[00:05:14] Speaker A: But I do think being kind of scrawny works for, like,
[00:05:16] Speaker B: the
[00:05:17] Speaker A: character in the TV show and what he's doing. So. Yeah.
[00:05:19] Speaker B: Yeah. I think in the book they were going for, like, a juxtaposition where he's like a big guy, but he's kind of cowardly. But
[00:05:26] Speaker A: I'm glad that the TV show didn't manufacture, or at least I'm not crazy for manufacturing, because the line about I. He's kind. He's attractive. I guess you would say I was getting weird. I'm attracted to my cousin. I
[00:05:38] Speaker B: also got the same from
[00:05:39] Speaker A: the TV show.
[00:05:41] Speaker B: Like,
[00:05:41] Speaker A: I was like. There were moments where, like, it felt like Zayn and Trina were like. Yeah. Where they, like,
[00:05:47] Speaker B: chemistry.
[00:05:48] Speaker A: Yeah, they were like. They're, like, clearly into each other in a weird way, which I think is
[00:05:52] Speaker B: the actors probably just had, like, a little crush
[00:05:54] Speaker A: on each other, and that's fair. Yeah. But I also think it's that. I don't think that's actually that weird. Like, it's not that it's not weird, but I think it's a pretty natural thing when you're, like, a weird, like a kid to, like, a cousin. You don't really know, to have a crush on your.
[00:06:09] Speaker B: Very often, to
[00:06:10] Speaker A: be like, yeah, I'm into that. Like, obviously you're not, but yeah, I think that's a pretty common experience as like, a child.
All right, let's find out. I have a bunch of questions. We're gonna find out if that was in the book.
[00:06:21] Speaker E: Gaston, may I have my book, please?
[00:06:24] Speaker C: How can you read this? There's no pictures.
[00:06:26] Speaker E: Well, some people use their imagination.
[00:06:29] Speaker A: Is the premise that the kids both. So Trina and Daniel are two main characters of what we just discussed.
We find out immediately in the film that their father is a ventriloquist and he has a ton of dolls and dummies or whatever in the attic.
And that the kind of impetus for everything is that he brings home a brand new dummy that he got from a shop that they were practically trying to give away named Slappy. And is that how the book starts off?
[00:06:58] Speaker B: That is the basic premise.
The book has a little bit more detail.
We find out that their dad Used to work as a ventriloquist, but he wasn't making any money doing that, so he opened a camera store instead, which he also doesn't make money doing. More on that later, which is why the dummies are all in the attic, because it's like something that he used to do, but he no longer does.
And we find out in the book that he actually found Slappy in the trash.
So he doesn't buy him. He finds him. And they also don't know at first that his name is Slappy because they found him in the trash.
So they call him Smiley for most of the book. But I totally understand that change because, like we said, he's like a tentpole character. So you want your iconic character to have his iconic name. I feel like.
[00:07:49] Speaker A: How is it revealed that it's.
When you're reading the book, do
[00:07:53] Speaker B: you
[00:07:53] Speaker A: know it's Slappy as the reader before they do or you don't?
[00:07:57] Speaker B: I mean, unless you're already familiar with, which I obviously. Yes, you would be. And
[00:08:02] Speaker A: seeing the COVID you would assume.
[00:08:03] Speaker B: Yeah, it's like, a little bit. But it's never said, like,
[00:08:05] Speaker A: there's not like a third person omniscient narrator.
[00:08:08] Speaker B: No.
[00:08:09] Speaker A: Referring to it as Slappy or anything like that.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: It's all from the
[00:08:11] Speaker A: perspective of Trina.
[00:08:12] Speaker B: Yes. So
[00:08:13] Speaker A: they're calling it Smiley. And then I assume at some point he reveals
[00:08:16] Speaker B: that he's like. Yeah. After they find out that he's coming to life, he tells them that his name is Slappy.
[00:08:21] Speaker A: Okay, we talked about. But then Zane, their cousin, comes to visit, and I wanted to know if that was, I assume, obviously, based on the fact that he's a character in the book, but maybe the setup's different or something. But he is coming to visit and stay with them for a few days or a weekend or whatever. And on top of that, they hate him and they play practical jokes on him constantly. Is that the dynamic of these two? This cousin relationship that is in the book?
[00:08:45] Speaker B: Yeah, the setup is all pretty much the same. He comes to stay for a few days and. And they don't like him.
We're told that the last time he was there, that they played such a terrible practical joke on him that he, like, wouldn't stop crying.
The biggest difference is that in the book, their Uncle Zane's dad is also staying with them at the house.
[00:09:09] Speaker A: Oh, okay. So it's not just that. Yeah, it makes sense to strip that. Streamline that down.
[00:09:13] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure.
[00:09:14] Speaker A: Zayn's the important one. We don't need his dad there.
So as they're preparing for Zane to come, their dad shows him this new doll. While they're looking at Slappy, the new doll, I believe Trina somebody, one of the two, finds a little piece of paper in like his pocket, his jacket pocket, pulls it out and reads it. And it has some nonsense words on it that turn out to be a magic spell which is what brings Slappy to life. And I wanted to know if that is what brought Slappy to life in the book. And I will say spoilers. I already knew the answer to this cause I don't know if I read this one, but I definitely read
[00:09:47] Speaker B: at least one of the
[00:09:48] Speaker A: living dummy series and I believe it's the same note in all of them because I did remember that when that happened in the TV show.
[00:09:55] Speaker B: Yeah, that's exactly what happens in the book.
And I was assuming that that was probably continued night of the living dummy lore.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: I believe so from my memory. Like I said, I remembered that note and maybe I did read this book, I don't know. Or maybe I even watched this episode at some point back in the day. But I definitely read at least one of the night of the living dummy books at some point. So Zane arrives and as you said, he's kind of a. They don't get along. And one of the reasons they don't get along is because Zane's a big scaredy cat and he does not handle the pranks that his cousins play on him well. Or at least previously he has not.
And this time though, he's trying to get better about it. He has a conquering your fears book that he's been reading that he tells him about and I wanted to know if that dynamic of him being a scaredy cat came from the book.
[00:10:41] Speaker B: Yeah, the big part of why they dislike Zane is that like he's a crybaby, he's a wet blanket, he's scared of everything, etc. So that part is accurate. He doesn't have a conquering your fears book in the book, but I thought that was pretty good shorthand for communicating that he's like a scaredy cat dork.
[00:11:02] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:11:03] Speaker B: At least according to the other case.
[00:11:04] Speaker A: Absolutely. Like having a self help book about that is a good shorthand way to illustrate what he's dealing with, what kind of person he is. Yeah.
So on the first night he's there in the middle of the night, he wakes up and thinks that there's a monster standing over his bed trying to stab him to death with a knife. And beats it up with his pillow and gets feathers everywhere. But it is revealed relatively quickly that it's not. It's just like one of the.
[00:11:32] Speaker B: It's one of the dummies. One
[00:11:33] Speaker A: of the dummies dressed up. And the parent. Everybody storms into the room. And then the parents assume that either Daniel or Trina.
[00:11:41] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:41] Speaker A: Did this as a prank to prank him. They both insist they did not.
And then ultimate. Ultimately we. It is revealed, along with several other things, that this was Slappy's doing or, you know, the dummy or whatever. Slappy did this. And I wanted to know if that element came from the book, this specific prank, but just that in general of like.
Because that's obviously what they're setting up with the history of the pranks. There's gonna be pranks happening. The kids are insisting it's not them doing it. And then eventually it's revealed that it was Slappy, so. Well, actually it's not, but we'll get to that. But yeah.
[00:12:19] Speaker B: So this specific prank doesn't happen in the book, but the first, like two thirds of the book has a very similar kind of thing happening over and over where a dummy appears somewhere it shouldn't be. And then they all argue about who put it there.
[00:12:39] Speaker A: Yeah. Okay. Makes sense.
As I mentioned earlier, Zane has the book about conquering your fears and he has a conversation with Daniel and Trina where he like, apologizes to him. The night before when he. He woke up and freaked out and like, caused a big mess. They got in trouble for it. And he goes the next day and apologizes to them about it and he like, it explains that he's like trying to be braver and it's a really well acted scene and like a really kind of like, I like, he's trying to, like, be friends with his cousins. Now this all gets undercut slightly
[00:13:11] Speaker B: as
[00:13:11] Speaker A: we find out. But in this particular moment, I wrote justice for Zayn because I was like, man, these kids suck.
[00:13:16] Speaker B: And
[00:13:17] Speaker A: Zane is just trying, like, I thought it was really heartbreaking when he's like, I'm sorry. I'm trying to be braver. I'm trying not to be as much of like a baby and that sort of thing. I can't help it. That's. And I felt really bad for him in that moment.
Little dude. I know. But I wanted to know if that element of him talking to them being like trying to connect with them and. And you know, connect with them came into the book.
[00:13:39] Speaker B: That specific scene is I. I would not say is in the book. There is a section of the book where the kids, like, call a truce and they all seem to be getting along for a while. But I wouldn't say that there's, like, a plot point about Zane making an effort to face his fears.
[00:13:56] Speaker A: Okay, well, that's. Yeah, I really like that scene. I thought that scene worked really well in the book. Again, it's kind of undercut by what happens momentarily. But another prank that we see is that they're having. And I mainly ask this because the line cracked me up in the TV episode.
They're getting ready to have dinner, and the mom says something along the lines of, all right, it's time for the, like, everybody get ready. We're having the meal tonight to honor Zane is the way she says it to honor Zane. And I'm like, what? He's just coming to visit for the. What are you talking? Meal to honor him.
But this meal gets ruined. She's prepared this big, fancy meal, and when they walk in, it's all, like, messed up, and there's a dummy under the cloche where the turkey should be or whatever and blah, blah, blah. And all the food's, like, ruined, and there's, like, corn cobs stuffed in the candelabras and all that kind of stuff. And I wanted to know if that specific moment happened in the book.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: There is a similar scene in the book where a nice dinner that their mom worked hard on is ruined in a similar fashion, but it is.
They throw an actual dinner party, and their parents, like, invite some of their friends over for it, which I assume is where the show got the line about, like, this is a dinner to honor Zane.
[00:15:19] Speaker A: No,
[00:15:20] Speaker B: because the reason that they're throwing a dinner party because the uncle and their cousin are, like, staying with them.
[00:15:26] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:15:27] Speaker B: So
[00:15:28] Speaker A: it's not so much to honor Zane.
[00:15:29] Speaker B: Yeah,
[00:15:29] Speaker A: it's just, like, it's
[00:15:30] Speaker B: like,
[00:15:30] Speaker A: because they're in town. Yeah,
[00:15:32] Speaker B: we're having a dinner party. We're having a little get together.
[00:15:34] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: I thought that scene had more weight in the book because it was, like, this specific party that they were going and other people are there.
It fell a little flat in the show for
[00:15:47] Speaker A: me. Yeah, in the show, the reason they make it the dinner to honor Zayn is to make it more of a red herring, like, to throw you off more. I assume the reason they specifically mentioned, like, oh, it's to honor Zane is to, like, make it to throw you even more off the scent that potentially the Zane is the one doing this. Like, why would he ruin a dinner for him? Kind of thing. Like, yeah, it doesn't make any sense. But that brings me to the next question, which is that we get then the twist. What a twist. Which is that we find out that Zane has actually been pranking himself and that the. Cause it's like a double twist. Because initially the whole thing initially is like, well, the kids are doing it, but it's actually gonna reveal to be the dummies.
And then you're gonna be like. And then the actual twist is, oh, it's not actually Slappy. It's Zane has been doing it to get revenge on his cousins, which was a fun twist. And I wanted to know if that came from the book. Has he been pranking himself to get his shitty cousins in trouble?
[00:16:44] Speaker B: Yes. This is like the first big red herring twist in the book. There's lots of buildup to the ide. Maybe the dummies have come to life and then it's revealed to be Zane playing pranks.
[00:16:56] Speaker A: Yeah, that's a good twist. Because obviously the twist can't be the Dummies came to life because that's the whole
[00:17:02] Speaker B: right
[00:17:03] Speaker A: title. Like, that's the point of the book. Like, if you go in reading it expecting and waiting for the dummies to car for at least for a dummy to come to life and cause havoc. And so that's not much of a surprise when that happens. But yeah, having it be Zane is a fun. Is a fun surprise. Although it does, like I said, undercut a little bit some of the emotional moments earlier in the episode.
But at this point, Slappy does come to life and start causing a ruckus. And he does this in several ways, but one of the ways is he. He breathe. He breathes green gas into the mouths of other. The other dummies in the attic and like, brings them to life.
[00:17:39] Speaker B: Just one.
[00:17:40] Speaker A: Just one. Sorry,
[00:17:40] Speaker B: Rocky.
[00:17:41] Speaker A: Yeah, I had said raise an army, but he doesn't really do multiple. It's just Rocky, which is one of their dad's older dummies and he's like a mob boss guy.
It's like what his styled as. And I wanted to know if Slappy brought any other dummies to life to help him in his mission of calamity.
[00:18:00] Speaker B: No, he actually doesn't. This is one of the biggest departures between the book and the show.
He does move Rocky around to make it seem like he might be alive.
[00:18:11] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:18:12] Speaker B: But he never comes to life, at least not in the same way that the show depicts.
More on that later.
[00:18:18] Speaker A: Okay, so then the show kind of immediately Almost seemingly resolves this, where they. As soon as Slappy comes to life, he's, like, chasing him around the house.
And they pretty quickly, like, tackle him, hold him down and trap him in his trunk that he came in when the dad bought him from the shop. And then drag that trunk outside and toss it down a well. And I was like, well, there's that. There's that solved. And I wanted. But then he immediately gets out and, like, the next scene, he's just there.
And I wanted to know if any of that came from the book.
[00:18:49] Speaker B: They do toss Slappy down a well, although he's not in his case because he doesn't have one in the book.
They just toss him in there. He does get out immediately and is sitting at the table the next morning.
[00:19:02] Speaker A: Okay, well, that was easy.
[00:19:03] Speaker B: There's also a line from Trina in the book that I really loved because it's. Her and Dan are like. They have a hold of Slappy and they're, like, fighting to get him out to the well.
And Dan's feeling a little hesitant. And Trina says, we're going to toss him in the well. He's evil. We have no choice.
[00:19:25] Speaker A: That's good. He's evil. We have no choice.
[00:19:28] Speaker B: Gotta toss
[00:19:28] Speaker A: him in the wall. That's what you gotta do. You gotta toss him down the well. So he comes back inside and is revealed that he's still alive. And then he. Like, they run into a room and they see him in the room, and then something happens and they get distracted and then he's disappeared.
[00:19:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:43] Speaker A: And then they look back in the room and they see that footprints, like, wet footprints.
[00:19:48] Speaker B: Because he came out of the well.
[00:19:49] Speaker A: He was in the well.
And we see the footprints and the camera slowly pans over the footprints and then it goes across the floor and then goes up the wall.
[00:19:58] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:19:59] Speaker A: And I'm like, wait, Slappy can just walk up walls? Which. Sure, I mean, I guess. Why not? He's magic. But I wanted to know if there was any allusion to that of him just being able to walk up walls like Fred Astaire in the. In the book.
[00:20:12] Speaker B: This is not mentioned in the book, but I haven't read any of the Other Night of the Living Dummy books. So I can't comment on whether or not this is established lore.
[00:20:22] Speaker A: I do not remember.
[00:20:23] Speaker B: I will say that it doesn't feel like a crazy departure for, like, if he's supposed to be, like, a possessed.
[00:20:32] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know. Dummy or something.
Slappy,
[00:20:35] Speaker B: you know,
[00:20:35] Speaker A: yeah,
[00:20:36] Speaker B: sure, he can walk up walls.
[00:20:37] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know if there is lore. I think he's basically just a Chucky kind of idea. Although Chucky does have lore behind it. Is like the spirit of a serial killer trapped in him. But I don't think it's anything that's serious because, again, it's like a kid's. Right.
[00:20:49] Speaker B: But. Right. Right.
[00:20:49] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't. I don't remember what the Slappy's, like, actual backstory is, so. But he escapes and he gets into the vents and then he gets up to Zane's room, which I guess Zane was still. Zane ran. I don't know. He somehow gets to work. No, they go to bed, I think.
[00:21:02] Speaker B: Yeah, they go to bed.
[00:21:03] Speaker A: They go to bed after they throw him in the well and then is revealed he's alive, blah, blah, blah. Gets up to Zane's room, and then they. They get up there, open the door, and the room is full of dummies.
Including Zane. He has turned Zane into a dummy.
[00:21:18] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:21:18] Speaker A: And I wanted to know if Zane gets turned into a dummy in the book.
[00:21:23] Speaker B: This is the second giant departure from the book. Zane does not get transformed into a dummy.
[00:21:30] Speaker A: Okay.
It doesn't really go anywhere. He just stays a dummy and then becomes not a dummy at the end. Like, it doesn't. But it is a. It does elevate the stakes. It's like, it. Oh, no. Like, what's. Yeah,
[00:21:41] Speaker B: I mean, giving him that power, I feel, like, elevates the stakes quite a bit.
[00:21:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And at least gives him a goal. Like, it seems like, oh, he's trying to turn them into dummies for whatever reason. Not like, you don't really know why he wants to do that, but he does, at least. Because
[00:21:53] Speaker B: he's evil.
[00:21:54] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. But he's not just trying to, like, kill them. He's trying to turn them into dummies. There's a great moment in the TV show that just made me crack up where they're trying to fight off Slappy and Trina just drop kicks him across the room. He's trying to, like, transform Daniel. He's, like, breathing into Daniel's, like, face and he. And just in time. Trina runs over and just kick punts him and he just goes flying across the room. And I wanted to know if that happened in the book.
[00:22:21] Speaker B: There are a couple scenes where they, like, scuffle with him. I don't think she ever drop kicks him across the room. But I also thought that was amazing. Incredible.
[00:22:31] Speaker A: Great moment. So the big kind of climax of the Story is they. They get up to the attic where all the other dolls are, all the other dummies are.
Zane is a puppet at this point, but he's just downstairs or whatever. But it's Trina and Daniel up in the attic and they are. They are running away from Slappy, but he kind of corners them and has them trapped. And at this point, he also has Rocky with him because he turned. He brought Rocky to life and he's. He tells Rocky to, like, take care of him. He's kind of doing the mob busting. He's like, go take care of him. And Rocky is walking towards him to take care of him.
And Trina starts talking to Rocky and kind of like, appealing to his better nature and the fact that he was their dad's favorite dummy and that they love him and blah, blah, blah, this sort of thing. And that he's part of the family.
And she's able to briefly connect with him. And he at the last second, decides not to attack the kids and instead turns around and attack Slappy. And I wanted to know if that was like, the climax of the book.
[00:23:33] Speaker B: That doesn't happen in the book, but I did like that addition, especially given the decision to have Rocky also come to life.
[00:23:40] Speaker A: Oh, yeah, that's right. Obviously you said he doesn't. Yeah, but. Yeah, no, I agree. I thought it was a nice little moment. I think they could have set it up more and maybe they did and I missed it. I feel like there could have been another scene earlier on, like with the kids and the dad talking about Rocky or something that
[00:23:56] Speaker B: would,
[00:23:57] Speaker A: have, liked, helped set that up better. And there may have been a moment in the beginning that I was taking a note and missed it, but I feel like a scene where they're kind of reminiscing about him or, I don't know, something to just make the connection of when she starts appealing to him.
Land a little bit better, I think would have worked, but it's a good moment either way.
So then he grabs Slappy and he throws him out the window. And Slappy, like, rolls down the roof and grabs and catches the gutter.
[00:24:24] Speaker B: And it's been storming this whole time? Yes,
[00:24:26] Speaker A: it's been storming this whole time. And he is hanging on the gutter as the storm is going off. And as he's hanging there, he's like, nah, I'm gonna get you anyway, still. But as he says that, lightning strikes like their weathervane and conducts down somehow to the gutter and then hits Slappy and he fucking Explodes into a billion pieces. And I wanted to know if that's how Slappy was defeated in the book.
[00:24:52] Speaker B: This also does not happen in the book. And I was a little mixed on it. And I'm going to talk about that more in Lost in Adaptation. I have a lot of thoughts on the ending.
[00:25:03] Speaker A: Okay. And then my final question is the final. Which. This is a pretty common for my memory, goosebumps, TV show thing. And I think maybe in the book as well. But he likes to throw in a final little, which is a classic horror movie thing of like, oh, maybe it's not
[00:25:18] Speaker B: evil has not been defeated
[00:25:20] Speaker A: kind of thing.
But as Zane is leaving, they make up. They have a nice moment where they're like, oh, can't wait to see you. We're gonna come visit for Christmas. That sort of thing. And then Zane is walking to his car to get in the car with his dad, and he stops on the sidewalk and his head turns 90 degrees around backwards. It rotates around like an owl or like a ventriloquist dummy. And he says, I'll be seeing you real soon. And then his head spins back and he gets in the car and drives away. And I wanted to know if that kind of final sting came from the book.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: So that specifically does not happen in the book. At the end of the book, Zane decides that he wants to learn ventriloquy.
[00:26:01] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:26:02] Speaker B: So they give him Slappy to take home and practice with
[00:26:06] Speaker A: because Slappy has not been.
[00:26:07] Speaker B: He has not been obliterated. No. And also in the book, Zane does not know that Slappy came to life.
[00:26:13] Speaker A: Oh,
[00:26:14] Speaker B: yeah.
He has not been part of those shenanigans with Trina and Daniel.
So they give him Slappy to take home and practice with because they. They also, at this point, they think that Slappy is no longer alive.
[00:26:28] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:29] Speaker B: But just as Zane is getting into the car, Trina sees Slappy wink at her.
Yeah. I actually don't know if there is a Night of The Living Dummy 4,
[00:26:40] Speaker A: I don't think
[00:26:40] Speaker B: installment, but I assume that if there were, it would be about Zane dealing with.
[00:26:46] Speaker A: You would assume.
[00:26:47] Speaker B: Slappy.
[00:26:48] Speaker A: You would assume. All right. Those are all my questions. Katie, though, has some stuff she wants to talk about in Lost and Adaptation.
[00:26:55] Speaker C: Just show me the way to get out of here and I'll be on my way.
Yes, yes. And I want to get unlost as soon as possible.
[00:27:04] Speaker B: Something that I wanted to mention are the different tactics for creating spookiness between the book and the show.
In the book, the scare factor comes mainly from asking, oh, shit, is this dummy alive? And then employing an entire flock of red herrings to continually pull the rug out from under you.
[00:27:26] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:26] Speaker B: There are a lot of little moments where Trina thinks she sees a dummy move, only for it to be revealed as Dan or her dad playing a prank. And then the majority of the larger pranks are ultimately revealed to have been Zane.
[00:27:40] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:40] Speaker B: The reveal that Slappy actually is alive doesn't come until page 93 of 125.
[00:27:48] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:48] Speaker B: So we get pretty far into the book before that reveal.
The show leans a little bit more into, like, dramatic irony.
[00:27:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:27:57] Speaker B: We, the audience know for sure that Slappy is alive while the characters don't.
[00:28:02] Speaker A: Yeah, they. They set it up more. But it is still play out very similarly for a lot of the first part where we don't actually see Slappy doing anything,
[00:28:10] Speaker B: but
[00:28:10] Speaker A: we do know,
[00:28:11] Speaker B: like, we saw
[00:28:11] Speaker A: the magic, his injury heal magically and, like, there are more obvious hints that he's alive. Yeah.
[00:28:19] Speaker B: So the show is able to lean into, like, creepy shots of him moving when we can, when we can see him, but the characters can't and that kind of thing. Obviously you can do that in a visual medium in a way that you can't in a book.
Of course, the book is also playing with dramatic irony, like in a way in the sense that anyone reading the book or just familiar with Goosebumps overall will assume that Slappy comes to life at some point.
[00:28:46] Speaker A: Literally the title.
[00:28:47] Speaker B: You just don't know when.
I also wanted to talk about the endings of the book and the show because they diverge pretty widely.
We talked about Rocky coming to life and Trina appealing to his quote unquote humanity, Zane turning into a dummy and Slappy exploding.
[00:29:05] Speaker A: Right.
[00:29:06] Speaker B: None of that happens in the book.
In the book, Trina and Dan are cornered by Slappy in the attic when all of the other dummies start to move and walk towards them.
So it seems like the kids are even more fucked.
But then the other dummies all turn on Slappy and like, drag him down.
And Trina isn't exactly sure what happens, but when the metaphorical dust clears, none of the dummies are alive, including Slappy.
[00:29:36] Speaker A: Interesting. So still similar idea though, of like, kind
[00:29:39] Speaker B: of a similar idea. Yeah.
[00:29:40] Speaker A: Saving the day. But
[00:29:41] Speaker B: yeah.
And I. I liked a lot of the decisions that the show made. Like I said, given the earlier decision to bring Rocky to life, I think that Trina's appeal to him was a really nice moment. I also think that Zayn turning into a Dummy. And the subsequent threat to turn them into dummies, too, was, like, conceptually more terrifying than anything in the book.
I didn't super care for Slappy exploding. I thought that felt a little too final.
But I understand wanting a big, bombastic finish in a visual medium and in your kids show. Overall, I would say that I preferred the ending of the show. The part where I'm torn is that there was something I really liked about all of the dummies getting up and defending Trina and Dan.
I think it makes sense that they would be loyal to the kids. And there was. I don't know, there was something kind of subtly satisfying about it that Rocky's hero turn didn't quite replicate for me.
[00:30:40] Speaker A: Yeah, it does have a. I know what you're saying.
[00:30:42] Speaker B: Yeah. It has like a. There's something there that the show just didn't quite hit the same button.
[00:30:49] Speaker A: Yeah. I'm trying to figure out how to describe it or, like, what. What it is about it that is appealing. But I can totally see what you're talking about. That. That there's, like, this. It kind of evokes this feeling of like a.
A more ancient, almost like familial.
[00:31:05] Speaker B: Yeah. Kind
[00:31:05] Speaker A: of magic.
[00:31:06] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:31:06] Speaker A: That is, like,
[00:31:07] Speaker B: goes beyond the weird. That is more powerful than
[00:31:10] Speaker A: Slappy's weird, evil, demonic, whatever he is thing. There's kind of this, you know, the power of love or whatever, the power of family and that sort of thing, even unspoken and un.
Unbidden, is actually able to kind of like.
Yeah. Neutralize the evil. And neutralize the evil. Yeah. There's something there that is very nice. So. All right, let's go ahead and talk about some other stuff I guess that Katie thought was better in the book.
[00:31:38] Speaker F: You like to read.
Oh, yes, I love to read.
What do you like to read?
[00:31:46] Speaker G: Everything.
[00:31:47] Speaker B: I mentioned that in the book, their dad actually finds Slappy in the trash.
He finds him in the trash with his head cut in half.
And I had the exact same note that you did in our Odds and Ends. I moved it up here.
I was like, oh, that must be how they defeated him at the end of Night of the Living Dummy, too. Yeah.
[00:32:07] Speaker A: I would assume
[00:32:08] Speaker B: by, like, cutting his head in half.
[00:32:09] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Cause we see his injury in the TV show. He has, like, a chunk. Like his eyeball is missing. Or it's not missing, it's there, but it's broken out of his head. And I wrote that. Yeah. I have to imagine that injury is from the end of Night of
[00:32:21] Speaker B: the
[00:32:21] Speaker A: Living Dummy 2.
I would assume at least. Hopefully
[00:32:25] Speaker B: there's some running light commentary on, like, wealth disparity throughout the book that I thought was really interesting and felt kind of like R.L. stine trying to pass a message along to kids.
[00:32:42] Speaker A: Interesting. He claims that he doesn't write messages
[00:32:45] Speaker B: well. And it's interesting because it was not. It was not thematically connected to anything else going on in the book, but it's present within the narrative. Narrative. So in the book, Trina talks quite a bit about how their family doesn't really have any money, they can't afford to fix up their house, their dad doesn't make much money working at the camera store, etc. She also mentions that their uncle Cal, Zane's dad, has a lot more money than we do.
And then when Zane and their uncle are staying with them, there's this like, running bit where Uncle Cal seems to not understand this.
Like, he makes comments several times to the effect of, I bet your uncle, meaning Trina's dad, has a camera that he'll just give to you.
A thing that they probably could not afford to do. Yeah. And then whenever the family eats, he takes more than his share of food.
And it was something that I was not expecting to encounter and I thought it was really interesting.
[00:33:56] Speaker A: I mean, it's one banana, Michael. What could it cost? $10? Yeah.
[00:34:00] Speaker B: There's a scene where they find Zane's camera smashed to pieces and then Rocky is in the room.
Later revealed that Zane smashed his own camera.
Yeah. So commitment to the bit and also taking after his dad and not being aware of the value of something expensive
[00:34:18] Speaker A: or just. Yeah, he just. He knows it.
[00:34:20] Speaker B: Yeah. And just doesn't care.
[00:34:21] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:22] Speaker B: The first time that Trina and Dan catch Slappy up and walking around, Trina actually has a little camera with her because they think they're going to catch Zane in the act. They're going to take a picture to prove it.
But then their dad comes up to the attic after they've had this, like, scuffle with Slappy and the camera got opened in the scuffle and the film is ruined.
I know a thing that would potentially be lost on a young reader now.
[00:34:53] Speaker A: Yeah. Film being rude and how that works. Yeah, absolutely.
[00:34:59] Speaker B: And my last note here is right before they drop Slappy in the well, Trina and Dan again have like, a fight with him and Trina actually tries to tear his head in half again, but the glue holds too well.
[00:35:13] Speaker A: Got some good super glue.
[00:35:14] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:16] Speaker A: All right, let's go ahead and talk about what was better in the movie.
[00:35:19] Speaker H: My life has taught me one lesson, Hugo, and not the one I thought it would.
Happy endings only happen in the movies.
[00:35:28] Speaker B: A little line from their mom when it's revealed that the dad brought Slappy home.
She says, oh, great. Another mouth to polish.
I also liked the dad doing the I cut my thumb off bit.
He's a specific type of character that I think the show gets really correct,
[00:35:48] Speaker A: gets it really right. And, boy, I felt bad for everybody involved in the family. Or mainly the mom.
[00:35:53] Speaker B: The mom. Yeah.
[00:35:54] Speaker A: Kids suck.
[00:35:55] Speaker B: Note about
[00:35:56] Speaker A: later. Yeah, I say the kids suck. The dad kind of sucks in a. At least a less obnoxious way. Yeah, Yeah.
[00:36:03] Speaker B: I liked. I thought Zane doing, like, a photographer bit when he gets there is pretty
[00:36:08] Speaker A: funny. Doing the classic. He's
[00:36:09] Speaker B: like, the camera loves you.
[00:36:11] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:12] Speaker B: I thought the reveal of Slappy being alive was pretty creepy when he's, like, sitting at the table behind Zane and you're just waiting for him to move throughout the whole scene.
[00:36:22] Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's good.
[00:36:24] Speaker B: And I also liked the little visual bit where Slappy coughs up a frog.
[00:36:28] Speaker A: Yeah. From being in the well.
[00:36:29] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:36:29] Speaker A: Yeah. All right, let's go ahead and talk about what the movie nailed.
[00:36:37] Speaker F: As I expected, practically perfect in every way.
[00:36:40] Speaker B: The kids do have a history of playing practical jokes on their cousin Zane, and their dad does make them promise not to do it this time.
We talked about the note with the nonsense words in Slappy's pocket.
Zayn being into photography is also from the book.
Also the scene where he develops the photos, and it's full of pictures of the dummies. Trina and Dan do catch Zayn in the attic, revealing that he was the one playing pranks.
And they do read from the card to try and stop Slappy, but it doesn't work. The biggest difference being that they do try reading it backwards in the show. A thing that I was screaming at them to try while reading. I was like, no, try reading it
[00:37:22] Speaker A: backwards. Read it
[00:37:23] Speaker B: backwards.
[00:37:25] Speaker A: It doesn't work, though.
[00:37:26] Speaker B: No, it doesn't work.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: All right. We got a handful of odds and ends before we get to the final verdict.
So I talked about how the. This was, like, the final episode that had the wraparounds with. At the beginning and end with R.L. stein, like, introducing it.
And I will say, initially, I. When I. In the prequel, I compared it to, like, Rod Serling introducing the Twilight Zone episodes.
These are much less Rod Serling introducing the Twilight Zone and much more like, if you're a Midwesterner who has a Marcus Theater, they're much More like whatever Greg Marcus or whatever the guy is. They're much more like the little bits he does at the beginning of movies.
[00:38:13] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:13] Speaker A: Where they're like.
[00:38:14] Speaker B: I mean I'm, I'm sure they are referencing Twilight Zone.
[00:38:17] Speaker A: I'm sure. Yes. But he, he's not remotely like setting the stage for the story necessarily
[00:38:23] Speaker B: in
[00:38:23] Speaker A: any sort of interesting way. He's
[00:38:25] Speaker B: just doing like a
[00:38:26] Speaker A: 30 second bit and, and, and you're like,
[00:38:28] Speaker B: I thought it was cute.
[00:38:29] Speaker A: It's fine.
[00:38:29] Speaker B: I, but I also like Greg Marcus because he kind of reminds me of my grandpa.
[00:38:34] Speaker A: Yeah. I don't disagree. I don't, I don't have a hatred for Greg Marcus. I just, I, it's, it's, it's, it's a very specific thing that yes, there's a, there's a charm to it, but it is.
I thought he was going to do a little bit more of like a. He's also doing the Crypt Krip Keeper introducing the story, but again I thought it would maybe be a little bit more of like not spooky but like a little bit more like setting up the story and like what's going on. I guess to be fair, he intentionally doesn't write them as like morality plays which, that's the whole thing with the Twilight Zone is he kind of like reinforces like the moral of the tale and that sort of thing. But yeah, I was combining these notes but man, I said it so many times. But Daniel and Trina are just assholes to be
[00:39:18] Speaker B: honest. Yeah. They kind of are.
[00:39:19] Speaker A: They're kind of miserable and they suck. And Zane has the most justified hatred of his relatives ever.
The kids are. And his, their dad is kind of just annoying. Yeah. Like the whole bit with the finger thing. If I was Zane, I'm like, oh my God.
Yeah. Ho. So it was very good. It was very clever. Yeah.
[00:39:37] Speaker B: I felt so bad for their long suffering wife and mother.
[00:39:42] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:39:42] Speaker B: She's the only normal one in this family. Like kids are jerks and her husband is useless. He's
[00:39:47] Speaker A: also way too hot for her husband. Like he's like this dweeb and I get it. He's, he's got a good sense of humor but he doesn't. At least that we see. Sure, he's a swell guy, but boy,
[00:39:58] Speaker B: I guess she's, she
[00:39:59] Speaker A: is out kicking his coverage. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. I honestly had no idea that Hayden Christensen was Canadian.
[00:40:07] Speaker B: I had
[00:40:08] Speaker A: until this. And literally not even from doing research. Just in the middle of the episode at one point he goes, what are you talking about? And I was like, wait a second. Which makes sense because this is all filmed in Canada and like, half. Like, all the actors are Canadian. But I had no idea that Hayden Christensen was Canadian. I assumed he was American.
[00:40:26] Speaker B: Little baby Hayden Christensen.
[00:40:27] Speaker A: But he straight up does the aboot. And it got me good.
[00:40:31] Speaker B: The extent to which Slappy is clearly just a guy in a costume was great.
Like, he has the dummy head.
[00:40:40] Speaker A: Yeah. And they go back and forth. Yeah.
[00:40:41] Speaker B: Some
[00:40:41] Speaker A: of the moments it's like a puppet or whatever,
[00:40:45] Speaker B: but when he's up and moving around, there's basically no attempt to make him look or move like a dummy. It's incredible. He's
[00:40:53] Speaker A: just a little person in a rubber mask. Yes. Running around.
It's great.
[00:40:58] Speaker B: I loved. Also in. In the show, after they dump Slappy in the well, they're all like, well, I guess we'll go to bed. Yeah. Like, no way I'm going to bed after that. We're all sitting backstage. We just fought off
[00:41:10] Speaker A: a haunted
[00:41:11] Speaker B: dungeon. We're watching the exits until our parents get home.
[00:41:14] Speaker A: We just fought a haunted demon possessed dummy
[00:41:18] Speaker B: and threw it down a well.
[00:41:19] Speaker A: Go to bed. All right, sure.
But. And the final note is that I had. It was. We talk. I talked about in the prequel that on one of the IB trivia facts was that in the scene where Zayn gets turned into a dummy when they go into his room, in some of the shots, you can see that is in some of the shots, it's like a. A puppet version of like a prop version of Zayn as a dummy.
But in some of. In the wide shots, when they cut to the wide shot of the room, it is just Hayden Christensen sitting in the chair with, like lions on his face, drawn on his
[00:41:52] Speaker B: face.
[00:41:53] Speaker A: And I could. And you can absolutely tell that's what's going on. I could not figure out why in the world they would have done that.
[00:41:59] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't know. Because they clearly went to the trouble of making. They
[00:42:02] Speaker A: clearly had the prop. Why? What purpose would have. Unless for some reason. The only thing I can think of is that they did not have the prop done when they were filming with the kids.
[00:42:12] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:42:14] Speaker A: And so they needed a stand in for the wide shot. So these have. And then they went back later.
[00:42:19] Speaker B: Maybe they. Maybe they only made a top half.
[00:42:23] Speaker A: Yeah, I guess. But even. But why?
[00:42:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know why they. If so
[00:42:26] Speaker A: many dummies. Yeah. It would be so easy to the leg parts. Easy. Like making the head is the hard way, though. Like, you could just Slap it on anything. Just doesn't make any sense. The only thing I could think is that. But even then just. It still seems weird. But like I could kind of imagine that in. When they were filming the initial stuff with the kids because I guess maybe the kids are in the like Daniel and Trina are in the foreground.
[00:42:47] Speaker B: I would have to watch of
[00:42:48] Speaker A: the wide shots. And so maybe they filmed those first. Right. And they didn't have the dummy done or something for some reason. And then later they filmed the inserts of the close up of.
[00:42:57] Speaker B: Of the dummy
[00:42:58] Speaker A: of the dummy sitting in the chair and just drop those shots in. I guess that makes sense. But it was so funny. I couldn't. I was
[00:43:04] Speaker B: like more sense than anything else.
[00:43:06] Speaker A: Yeah, it's so interesting that. Yeah, they just have. Because normally it would be the opposite. Normally when you see a moment like that in a movie, it's the. The actor. Like if they have a scene where they're like if they can get away of shooting something without the actor and by just using like a dumb. If they have a dummy version of the actor and they don't actually have to have the actor, especially a child actor sitting in the scene, they would film it without him and just use the dummy. But this is the opposite of that. And I was like very confused. Before the final verdict, we wanted to remind you you can do us a favor by heading over to Facebook, Instagram threads, Blue Sky, Goodreads, any of those places interact. We would love to hear what you have to say about Night of the Living Dummy 3. And also help us out by heading over to Apple, podcast, Spotify. Wherever you listen to our show, drop us a five star rating, write us a nice little review, really helps us out. And you can Support
[email protected] ThisFilmIsLit Support us there, get access to bonus content. I gotta put that out. We recorded the episode on. I saw the TV glow the other day. Have to finish editing it. It'll be out in the next day or two, so look out for that. Every month we put out a bonus episode at the $5 a month level. And at the $15 a month level, you get access to priority recommendations. If there's really something you would really love for us to talk about, support us at that level, stick around for a bit and we will add it to our list as soon as we humanly can. And this in fact was a patron request from.
[00:44:21] Speaker B: This was a request from Shelby.
[00:44:23] Speaker A: There you go. Thank you, Shelby. Katie, it's time for the final verdict.
[00:44:28] Speaker G: Sentence Fast verdict after.
That's stupid.
[00:44:33] Speaker B: Apart from the ending, this double episode of Goosebumps is a pretty faithful adaptation of Night of the Living Dummy 3.
The ending does diverge pretty wildly, but it's much more of an exciting spectacle. A perfect choice for a kid's TV show.
I thought that the book was fun and there were some elements that I really liked. I liked the climax being all of the other dummies waking up to defend the kids. And I thought that the subtle wealth disparity messaging was a fascinating inclusion.
But I'll be honest, the repetitive nature of using the exact same red herring device over and over wore on me a little as I was reading.
And the show made some choices that I really enjoyed, like bringing Rocky to life and introducing the idea of Slappy being able to turn humans into ventriloquist dummies.
Truly horrifying.
So for those reasons, I'm going to give this one to the show slash movie Slappy Halloween, everybody.
[00:45:38] Speaker A: Well done, well done. Katie. What's next?
[00:45:41] Speaker B: Up next, we are going to cover another classic 90s. I
[00:45:47] Speaker A: think it might also even be produced by Nickelodeon. I think
[00:45:49] Speaker B: probably
[00:45:50] Speaker A: this might have been made by Nickelodeon. Well,
[00:45:52] Speaker B: the book is older, but the. The film. No,
[00:45:54] Speaker A: I know. I mean the film.
[00:45:55] Speaker B: Yeah, we're going to be talking about Harriet the spy. Yeah. 1996 film based on the novel of the same name by Louise Fitzhugh.
[00:46:05] Speaker A: I definitely saw this movie when I was a kid, but I don't remember. I saw it once again. Don't remember anything. I
[00:46:10] Speaker B: have like a couple memories about it. I think I. I did read the book when I was a kid and I think I remember the book a little better, actually. I
[00:46:19] Speaker A: believe it stars dawn from Buffy.
[00:46:21] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. It has Michelle Trachtenberg
[00:46:23] Speaker A: in it. Yeah. All right, well, that'll be in two weeks time. We're talking about Harriet the Spy. In one week's time, we'll see what you all had to say about Night of the Living Dummy 3 and preview Harriet the Spy. Until that time, guys, gals, non binary pals and everybody else,
[00:46:36] Speaker B: keep reading books,
[00:46:37] Speaker A: keep watching movies and keep being awesome and have a happy and safe Halloween.
Sam.
