The Maze Runner

[00:00:04] Speaker A: This Film Is lit, the podcast where we finally settle the score on one simple Is the book really better than the movie? I'm Brian and I have a film degree, so I watch the movie but don't read the book. [00:00:15] Speaker B: And I'm Katie, I have an English degree, so I do things the right way and read the book before we watch the movie. [00:00:22] Speaker A: So prepare to be wowed by our expertise and charm as we dissect all of your favorite film adaptations and decide if the silver screen the or the written word did it better. So turn it up, settle in and get ready for spoilers because this film is lit. I am sure by now you all must be very confused, angry, frightened. I can only assure you that everything that's happened to you, everything we've done to you, it was all done for a reason. It's the Maze Runner and this film is Lit. Hello and welcome back to this Film is Lit, the podcast where we talk about movies that are based on books. It's the first episode of our summer series coming to you one week late. Before we get started, we wanted to explain briefly where we been, what's been going on. We talked about this a little bit on Patreon, but figured we'd fill everybody in. Just so I don't know how much people care are curious, but in our day jobs we both work in marketing, I do video, I'm a video director. And so we recently over the past week had an incredibly busy couple of weeks actually. Big client. I had a shoot and you were on the shoot for some of the days helping, but I shoot like every single day last week. I think I worked close to 65 hours last week on shoots for these big clients, directing and stuff like that. So early mornings, early morning, literally late evenings. I had a 4:30 call one morning. I didn't get home most days till like 6:30 or 7 depending on the day. So like 1214 hour days for almost a week and a half straight and then all the prep before. Anyways, point being we won't get into all the details but that's what was going on. So we had a lot of work and so it just was not feasible to get this read and then edit and recorded after, you know, after working for 14 hours where my brain is just fried and then coming back and reading it was just so we had to push it a little bit. But we do have a plan. We're hopeful we can get back on schedule without actually missing anytime. We'll see how I think we can pull that off or basically like Accelerate for like the next prequel and then get back on schedule. That's the plan, assuming I can get the next book read in time, which I should be able to. So we should get back on schedule then. Should be good, because the schedule at work has now calmed back down again for at least a little while. So that's what's going on. That's why we are a week late. I know we didn't have any updates during that time. Again, we were very busy and stressed out. So we do have so much to talk about on our first episode though, of the 202025 summer series. If you have not read or watched the Maze Runner, we're gonna give you a brief summary of the film in Let me sum up. Let me explain. No, there is too much. [00:03:11] Speaker B: Let me sum up this summary of the film. The Maze Runner is sourced from Wikipedia. A teenage boy awakens in an underground elevator without memory of his identity. A large group of male youths meet greetings. Youths greet him in a large grassy area called the Glade. Enclosed by massive stone walls, the Gladers have formed a rudimentary society, each taking on specialized roles. The boy learns that a vast maze encircles the Glade, and it is their only means of escape. During the day, designated runners search the maze for an exit and return before its gate closes at sunset. After a fight with Gally, the boy remembers his name is Thomas. Thomas is attacked by Ben, a runner who was stung and left delirious by a Griever, one of the biomechanical creatures that roam the maze at night. The Gladers force Ben into the maze as there is no cure for his condition and leave him to die. The next morning, Alby, the Glade's leader, and Minho, the lead runner, retrace Ben's steps inside the maze. However, as the sun sets, Minho reappears at the gate, dragging a badly injured Alby, who has been stung. Unable to reach the Glade in time, Thomas runs into the maze to help, leaving all three trapped. Thomas is chased by a Griever, but manages to lure it into a closing passageway, crushing it. The three survive the night and return the next morning. A girl arrives in the elevator with two syringes of Griever antivenom and a note saying that she is the last to enter the Glade. She recognizes Thomas, but he does not remember her. Galley accuses Thomas of disrupting the peace between the Gladers and the Grievers and insists he must be punished. However, Newt, Alby's second in command, designates Thomas as a runner. Instead, Thomas, Minho, Frypan, Winston and Zart enter the maze to locate the Griever's corpse and retrieve a mechanical device inside of it. Minho later shows Thomas a maze model based on previous explorations and explains that numbered sections open and close in a fixed sequence. Thomas realizes that the device corresponds to a specific section of the maze. One of the antivenom syringes is used on Alby, who recovers quickly. Minho and Thomas venture back into the maze with the device and discover a potential exit, but are forced to retreat after a series of traps suddenly activate. Later that night, the maze entrance remains open and additional gates open up, allowing Grievers to invade the glade. Alby, Zart and many other Gladers are killed, leading Gali to blame Thomas for the chaos. Thomas, who has been experiencing fragmented memory flashes since his arrival, stabs himself with a severed Griever's Stinger to recover his memories before receiving the last dose of the antivenom. While unconscious, Thomas remembers that he and Teresa once worked for the World Catastrophe Kill Zone Department, wckd, the organization behind the maze, and that all the Gladers are being used as test subjects for an experiment. He awakens and reveals his past, having taken command overnight. Gali plans to sacrifice Thomas and Teresa to the Griebers, believing it will restore peace. However, several Gladers free them and enter the maze together with While Gally and a few Gladers stay behind, Jeff and several other Gladers are killed by Grievers. As the rest escape through the maze exit, the Gladers have who is Jeff? I don't know. I have no idea. [00:06:56] Speaker A: I don't remember a Jeff. [00:06:57] Speaker B: I don't remember a Jeff or the movie. [00:07:00] Speaker A: Okay. [00:07:02] Speaker B: The Gladers eventually reach a laboratory strewn with corpses in a video recording, and a WCKD scientist Ava Page explains that massive solar flares followed by a pandemic caused the flare virus has devastated the planet and the Gladers were part of an experiment to find a cure for the virus. The recording ends with Paige shooting herself as armed personnel storm the lab. Gally, having been stung by a Griever while following the group, declares that they will never be free and fires a gun at Thomas. Minho spears Gally, but not before he fatally shoots Chuck. This is the first mention of Chuck, I think, in this summary, which is funny. As Thomas breaks down crying over Chuck, masked soldiers arrive and escort them to a helicopter which flies over a vast desert desert wasteland toward a ruined city. Later, the supposedly dead scientists gather in a room with Paige who remarks the experiment was a success and that the survivors are now entering phase two. [00:08:05] Speaker A: All right, that was a summary of the film. If you have not watched it, the summer series are a little bit different because we both read the books, for those of you that don't know. So we do these a little bit different. We don't have Wizette in the book. Sometimes we kind of have lost an adaptation, but we don't this week. But we do just get right into comparing the book in the film, what we like better in the book versus what we like better in the film. So we're gonna jump right in to better in the book. You like to read? [00:08:36] Speaker B: Oh, yes, I love to read. [00:08:39] Speaker A: What do you like to read? [00:08:43] Speaker B: Everything. [00:08:43] Speaker A: We explain this every year. But if you're new here for the better or for our summer series, the way we're going to do this is when we do better in the book and better in the movie. We're going to kind of go through in the order of events of the book slash movie and talk about we prefer better in the book. And then we'll kind of restart when we get to better in the movie from the beginning of the story and go through it again. You'll catch on quick. It's easy. But the first thing we're going to start with is the things that we prefer in the book, which is a shorter list this year. Not to spoil our. [00:09:13] Speaker B: It has more in it than I thought it was going to, honestly. [00:09:17] Speaker A: It does. It does. It absolutely does. So we jump actually quite a far ways in for our first note here, because you'll see why when we get to better in the movie in a minute. But the first note I had for better in a book was that I thought the banishment process in the book was gnarlier than what we see in the movie. In the book and the movie, when somebody gets punished in a certain way, their highest form of punishment, basically akin to an execution, is they force somebody to leave and stay out in the maze overnight, basically. And we see this in both the book and the movie. But in the book, the process, I thought was a little more gnarly because they. In the movie, they just have these poles that are, like. Have, like, sticks on the end that they use to, like, push them. [00:10:06] Speaker B: Yeah, they. And then they all have spears. [00:10:09] Speaker A: Some of them have spears, and some of them have these, like, pushing sticks. [00:10:12] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:12] Speaker A: And they just push the person out into the maze, which is dark and creepy in its own way. But in the book, they have this collar thing that they attach to the end of a very long pole and use as that to push them out into the maze. And then the pole like disconnects as the maze is shutting. [00:10:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:29] Speaker A: And it traps them outside. And both that device. But also. And the way they do it. But also just everybody's reactions. And Ben's reaction in the book I thought was way more dramatic and like sad than it was. [00:10:44] Speaker B: Yeah, I think. And I didn't dislike the scene in the movie. I thought it was still pretty unsettling. But yeah, I thought that the weird long pole with the collar at the end and all that stuff was kind of the closest that the book got to interesting world building within the Glade for me. [00:11:03] Speaker A: Yeah. There's a couple other little details. [00:11:05] Speaker B: But yeah, and I. And I do. I do agree with you that it's sadder because Ben in the book is more like himself. [00:11:13] Speaker A: Yes. He's not nearly as feral as he is in the movie. So he's like. Because in which a detail we'll get to a little bit later. The way the changing works in the book is different than in the movie. And so, yeah, he's a lot more himself in the book, which makes it a lot more gut wrenching than it is in the film. Because in the film he's kind of just like a rabid animal, which is like. Okay. I think he still does like kind of beg them not. [00:11:38] Speaker B: I can't remember he does in the movie. Yeah. [00:11:41] Speaker A: Just a little weird for the movie's universe of what. Anyways. [00:11:45] Speaker B: But I also liked the little detail in the book that after they banish somebody, they say that the Grievers always return the collar to them. Like when the maze opens again, it's always sitting there. [00:11:56] Speaker A: Yeah, I thought that was fun too. There's another little world building detail that the movie completely omits, which I was kind of surprised that they just cut this. [00:12:05] Speaker B: Yeah, I was surprised by that too. [00:12:07] Speaker A: There are these things in the books called beetle blades, which are these small little mechanical devices that skitter around on the walls that they assume. And we do too, as the readers, because we have no reason not to assume that's what they're for. Maybe we'll find out differently in a later book. I don't know. But they're these little devices that they assume they use to monitor them that are cameras or recording devices some sort, because they have little red lights on them and they assume they use them to monitor the people in the Glade. And the movie just completely cuts those out, which I thought it's not like they're super necessary. Nothing really happens with them in the movie. [00:12:41] Speaker B: Yeah, they don't really do anything to be fair. [00:12:43] Speaker A: Yeah, we never. [00:12:43] Speaker B: They just see them, see them. [00:12:45] Speaker A: But I was kind of surprised they didn't include those. [00:12:47] Speaker B: Yeah, that was a more interesting little world building moment. It also gave me big Hunger Games. [00:12:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Where there's kids. [00:12:56] Speaker B: Felt like something out of the arena. [00:12:58] Speaker A: Absolutely. Another detail that the movie kind of omits, which I thought was interesting, is that when Thomas arrives in the Glade, Thomas is our main character. As he arrives in the Glade, Some of the people in the Glade have this vague feeling that they know him from somewhere or they remember him specifically. Gally mentions it and I think there are a couple others that are like, maybe Albie, I can't remember. There's at least one or two others who are like, feel like they remember him from somewhere. And I thought that was kind of interesting. The movie just drops that. Teresa obviously remembers him. And then later on I think Alby, once he goes under the changing, remembers him. But some of the kids have like buried deep in their memory some memory of Thomas. And I thought that was like a fun again, like, mystery element early in the book. [00:13:49] Speaker B: So I was fine with losing that. In exchange for what, in my opinion was a better character in Gally? [00:14:00] Speaker A: I mean, Yes. I don't even think you have to say your opinion. He's a much better character when we get to it. [00:14:05] Speaker B: He functions as a way more like nuanced and measured character in the book or in the movie. Whereas in the book he's kind of just like a dick, 100%. [00:14:14] Speaker A: We have a note about that later. I don't think that necessarily this. That change necessitates the other change. Like I think he could still have been a more interesting, nuanced character and also feel like he had some memory of Thomas, you know, I don't know. But yes, I agree. Again, we'll get to Gally more later. One of the things that I thought was interesting in the movie is that we see it pouring down rain one day. And in the book they explicitly say that it never rains in the Glade or in the maze, like it just never rains there. And we'll find out later. And I was like, oh, I like that change in the movie because, like, why wouldn't it rain? We'll find out later in the book that I assume the reason it doesn't rain is because it's this artificial environment, although they have an artificial sun and all these. So like Right. [00:14:59] Speaker B: Like they could make it rain. Make it rain. Theoretically. [00:15:02] Speaker A: I don't know. It seems not as hard as half the other stuff they're doing. Like the giant physics defying moving walls are way harder to do than, you know, putting a sprinkler system on the roof. So like, I don't. Whatever. But it does. The movie kind of makes that seem weird though at the end when we see it raining in that one scene. Because later, unless there's some detail that I don't know. Because later at the. In the end of the movie, it's revealed that the maze in the movie is like set on the ground on Earth. I assume. I assume this takes place on Earth. We don't know. [00:15:33] Speaker B: But that's fair. We guess we don't know that. [00:15:35] Speaker A: I'm pretty sure it's Earth. I think somebody must say. Yeah, because they say something about South America. It's definitely. [00:15:40] Speaker B: Oh yeah, 100% right. [00:15:43] Speaker A: And so it's definitely takes place on Earth. But when we see it in. In the book, and we'll get to this, I assume the mat. The. The maze is like up in the air is kind of the. Or something. Because when they go down the slot, like the chute at the end, they go down like a really long slide at one point, which I assumed meant this was like up in a tower or. I don't even know. [00:16:03] Speaker B: Or in the mountain or something. [00:16:05] Speaker A: Something. And so because they have to like end up like underground. Or maybe it wasn't underground. Maybe it was up on the ground level. And then the. The base is way underground or so I don't. Which would make more sense. Maybe. I guess that would make sense. So then maybe it is the same in the movie. In the book that it is just like up on the surface, but in the book it has like a dome over it. It's covered because we see the sun go out later, which we'll talk about. But in the movie it rains, which doesn't make sense later because when it's revealed to be. When we pull back and see where the maze is in the movie, it's like in the desert. [00:16:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:42] Speaker A: So I was like, oh, wait, nevermind. I assume it's in the scorch, which is a detail we find out about later where like the. The catastrophic event that happened was a solar flare. And it, like they say along the equator created this whole area called the Scorch. And I assume the maze is like right on the edge of it or something. Because it seems like the next book is about them going through the Scorch. Based on the name of the book. I don't know. Anyways, I just thought it was very. I was like, oh, yeah, rain, fine, sure. And then later I was like, oh, it shouldn't be raining. They're in like very clearly the desert, but whatever. Not that it never rains in the desert, but. [00:17:15] Speaker B: Well, but. And I mean, not just the desert. [00:17:17] Speaker A: But like, like a catastrophic, made like super desert, basically. [00:17:23] Speaker B: Yeah. I unfortunately was more confused about how the Glade and the maze worked in the movie than I was in the book. Especially with the reveal. Like you said that it's an open air, or at least seems to be an open air spot because the helicopter just flies out. Right. [00:17:41] Speaker A: It almost makes me wonder if maybe there was an earlier plan or something to have it be more of like the artificial environment. And then at some point they just changed their mind. But I don't know. Yeah, I don't know because I, I. The reveal of where the maze is was kind of strange in the. In the film to me. [00:18:00] Speaker B: I just wanted to give a shout out to this one line from the book. So Thomas has a hard time getting along with most everybody else in the Glade. [00:18:09] Speaker A: Yes. [00:18:10] Speaker B: And there's just this one line. He hated all of them, except Chuck. [00:18:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [00:18:17] Speaker B: Because Chuck is his only friend. [00:18:19] Speaker A: One little thing that the book does that I liked that the movie doesn't do much of is we get to see a little bit more of the Glade in the book, which makes sense just because of time, but like, specifically we get to see that it's kind of split into these four areas where they have the gardens, where they garden, they have the dead heads area, which is like a graveyard woods area, which we see in the movie. They have the blood house, which is like the slaughterhouse and where they raise animals. And then they have the homestead, which is like the building they ostensibly live in, although they all sleep outside. Anyways, I just like that it was a little bit of like world building that the movie didn't include. It does a lot of other better world building. But yes, I did like those details. I thought that was kind of interesting in the book. [00:18:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I thought the, like, the Bloodhouse in particular was an interesting addition. [00:19:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:05] Speaker B: Kind of felt like trying to get into more of that, like Lord of the Flies type stuff. [00:19:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:19:12] Speaker B: Another thing speaking of animals in the Glade that we find out in the book is that there's a dog there. A dog named Bark. [00:19:21] Speaker A: I. I've. Your next sentence explains. I literally forget. I did not. [00:19:26] Speaker B: Well, We. We literally never interact with this dog. It's just mentioned that there is a dog there. [00:19:32] Speaker A: I've completely forgotten, but I think they. [00:19:34] Speaker B: Could have put a dog in there. [00:19:37] Speaker A: Sure. [00:19:38] Speaker B: I. Justice for bark is what I'm saying. [00:19:41] Speaker A: Yes. I completely forgot the dog existed. I also don't know. We. It's never mentioned again after. [00:19:49] Speaker B: Yeah, I know. They don't. The book does not do anything with it. [00:19:52] Speaker A: Yeah. So I. It's like, okay, sure, I guess there could have been a dog, but I don't know. Yeah. For the movie that would have been a mess of like, you gotta. Either gotta kill that dog or it's gotta go with them. That's true. [00:20:02] Speaker B: Yeah, that is. That is true. [00:20:05] Speaker A: Yeah. One of the things I liked is that when he go in the book that didn't make it in the movie, and we see this scene in the movie where he goes to the graveyard area in the woods and he sees some of the graves of the dead previous Gladers or whatever. And that's when he gets attacked by Ben. But one of the things we see in the book that's not in the movie that I thought was fun is when they're trying to. He's trying to come up with ways, like how they could get out of the maze, the glade. And he asks, and it's that scene we see in the movie where they're like, we tried that, we tried that, we tried that. But one of the things he asks is like, has anybody tried? Well, you can't go down in the box that brings people up. But like, when the hole's open, can you repel down there, jump down there? Or whatever. And they're like, yeah, one kid tried to years ago or whatever, and we made ropes out of vines and he climbed down there, but then he got cut in half by a giant saw or something. And when Thomas goes to the graveyard, they have a grave for him with a plexiglass cover on. It's kind of insane now that I think about it, but it has like a plexiglass cover so you can see down into the grave. It's very convoluted and stupid now that I read. I, like, think about it. I'm like, why would you do that anyways? Well, they say it's like a warning or whatever, but he looks and he sees because he couldn't tell if they were joking or not about this. And then he sees the kid's body and his skeleton, like, cut in half in the grave. [00:21:27] Speaker B: Which doesn't really prove anything. [00:21:29] Speaker A: No. I thought that was funny, though. And I was. [00:21:33] Speaker B: Yeah. They have a snow white grave that they can see into as a warning to everyone else. [00:21:39] Speaker A: Don't rappel down the box hole, I guess. [00:21:41] Speaker B: Okay, sure. [00:21:43] Speaker A: Whatever. One of the little details I liked in the book that I thought would have been fun for an action scene that the movie doesn't really do is that at one point when Thomas goes into the maze to save Alby and Minho, he. He has to run away from the Griever. And the way he does this in the movie or in the book is he climbs up the vines on the wall. And then at some point he starts using the vines to like, swing. [00:22:10] Speaker B: Yes. [00:22:10] Speaker A: Away down the. Away from the Griever. Like George of the Jungle. And I thought that was fun. And I thought the movie was going to do that. And they didn't do it. [00:22:18] Speaker B: I think that would have looked goofy. [00:22:22] Speaker A: I think you could have done it. Because the way I imagine it in the book was pretty clumsy. And like, it's not like he's like, good at it. He's just kind of like getting by. I think they could have done it. But I mean, the movie's action scene's fine. It's fine. [00:22:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:37] Speaker A: Speaking of the maze, when he goes out, I think a later trip, he's out with Minho. And they see. They find this cliff that goes to the edge of nothing. It's just this cliff. And this is not in the movie at all. They completely changed this. And I much prefer the books. Ver. I say much. I slightly prefer the book's version of where the escape hatch in the maze is in the movie. It's just. They have this device that they get from the dead Griever that acts as like a key card. Basically that when they get close enough to this door, the doors open and it reveals this hole in the wall that they can go into. [00:23:12] Speaker B: Right. [00:23:13] Speaker A: In the book, they get to the edge of this cliff in the maze that goes off into nothingness. And at one point they use it to. To kill some. Well, they try to kill some Grievers. Is that some Grievers are chasing them and they lemmings them or whatever, where they have them running at the cliff and they jump out of the way at the last second and the Grievers go off the cliff. But then they realize the Grievers don't like, fall into the nothingness. They just disappear. [00:23:42] Speaker B: Yeah, they just vanish. [00:23:43] Speaker A: Yeah. And they're like, what? That's weird. And then eventually later they figure out that there's this invisible portal out off the edge of the cliff that is in space out there. [00:23:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, it looks like a cliff edge, but if you go in the right spot, you're actually, like, going through a door. [00:24:01] Speaker A: You go through this, like, invisible doorway and that leads you to this place. And they call it the Griever Hole. And it is where the Grievers come out of and go back into when they're not in the maze, I guess they realize. And this is ultimately where they escape from the maze into. In the big action scene at the end. And I thought that was just more interesting than just like, a door and a hole in the wall. Especially the way they find it and stuff I just thought was way more interesting. [00:24:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. I also liked the scene where they're throwing rocks at it to try and figure out where the actual borders of the gateway are. [00:24:37] Speaker A: And I liked at the end that somebody that when they were going out on missions, when they find it, in preparation for the end, they take vines and they throw the vines into it to create, like, an outline so they can actually see, because the vines are, like, hanging out of it. So they can actually see where the edge of the hole is, which I thought was kind of clever and would be interesting to see in the movie. And they just make it a wall and a door and a hole. [00:25:03] Speaker B: Yeah, it kind of is just a door in the movie. Although I will say I hated that the book kept making me read the words Griever hole with my two good eyes. [00:25:13] Speaker A: Not a great two combination of words, that's for sure. [00:25:19] Speaker B: Another singular line that just kind of made me chuckle. As I was grieving. As I was. [00:25:24] Speaker A: As you were grieving? [00:25:25] Speaker B: As I was grieving, yes. Oh, my God. Also, my phone refused to learn the word griever. It was very frustrating. As I was taking notes. [00:25:34] Speaker A: Mine learned it pretty quick. [00:25:36] Speaker B: It kept trying to change it to, like, greaves or giver or. There was another thing I don't remember now, anyway, a line from the book that made me chuckle because we're in Thomas's perspective, it's like a third person limited. And he thinks to himself, this is my life. Living in a giant maze surrounded by hideous beasts. [00:26:02] Speaker A: A little detail that I thought was kind of interesting in the book that doesn't make its way into the movie is that after Albie goes through the changing, he remembers a bunch of stuff about his past or about the previous life, which is when you go through the changing in both the book and the movie, you get some of your memories back at Least briefly. They seem to, like, then go away a little bit, kind of. [00:26:23] Speaker B: Yeah, they seem to fade again after. [00:26:25] Speaker A: But right after you go through it, you get this flash of memories from your previous life. And in the book, after Albie remembers this stuff, he talks to them and tries to tell them some of the information he remembered. And they say, like, he's the first person to ever do that. And after he tries to tell them, he then, like, tries to strangle himself. Like, his body, like, freaks out. He, like, has a seizure kind of seemingly type thing, but then also, like, tries to strangle himself. And they realize that, like, the something is like, there's some sort of defense mechanism to stop them from divulging the information that they learn. There's this defense thing where if they do that, it'll try to kill themselves, it'll try to stop themselves somehow or something. It's a little convoluted. So I understand why the movie, like, a lot of details in this, especially with the changing and the Griever serum and stuff, the details of that are kind of messy and feel not well thought out. [00:27:26] Speaker B: Yeah, they feel kind of like James Dashner was making it up as he went and didn't really. [00:27:33] Speaker A: Never really settled on, like a concrete idea. [00:27:36] Speaker B: Yeah, like a. Yeah, like a concrete. [00:27:38] Speaker A: Outline of, like, how this works. [00:27:40] Speaker B: Here's what happens. [00:27:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:41] Speaker B: Because it does feel like. Not that. Not that it's, like, all over the place. No, but the. The details of how it works are just so, like, squishy. [00:27:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And we'll get to it more. We have more about that later. But anyways, I liked that because. And that's an element of, like, that them being of the. The creators is what they call the people who made. Being able to control. Physically control their bodies in some way is an element that the movie completely removes. That happens several times in the book. And I have another note about that later that seems like it should be important at some point in a future book. We'll see if it is or not. But the movie cut it out entirely, so we'll see. I don't know. Sometimes with movies they also save some of those elements for later to amplify stakes. You know what I mean? Some of those kind of. [00:28:28] Speaker B: Yeah, that's something that could very well come back in the second movie, because. [00:28:32] Speaker A: Then it's like, oh, wow, they can control her. But, like, you know, that. That reveal could be like a big moment in the second movie, whereas this one just dropped it. There's things like that that they make that the writers will have made for narrative reasons, or it just may not matter at all and they may have decided to cut it. We will find out. On a similar note to that of a thing that this movie just completely cuts, that I don't know if it will be important or not later, is in the book, Teresa and Thomas, who are our two leads, are able to telepathically communicate with each other. [00:29:03] Speaker B: Yes. [00:29:05] Speaker A: I felt like that half has to be relevant at some point down the. [00:29:08] Speaker B: Road, one would think. [00:29:10] Speaker A: I didn't mind it not being in the movie. I have it in better in the book because it, again, it feels like it must be important. [00:29:16] Speaker B: Yeah, that feels like that must be like a major element. [00:29:20] Speaker A: Yes. Moving forward in some capacity. But it's not in this movie at all. And again, I didn't mind it. I think it would be weird and kind of annoying in the movie if they were like, we were having, like, telepathy conversations between Thomas and Theresa. So I don't mind cutting it, but it's a fine element in the book and I hope it goes somewhere interesting. We'll see. [00:29:42] Speaker B: Hope so. Yeah, I agree with you that it feels like it has to be important. But also, I'm going to be honest, I didn't even clock that it was missing from the movie until I read your note here. Yeah, I just, like, completely forgot about it, I guess, while we were watching. I know, I know. [00:30:03] Speaker A: All right. A little detail in the Glade that I liked more in the book than the movie is the design of the slammer. In the book or in the movie, it's just like a pit. They call it the pit. They don't call it the slammer, for one. And it seems to just be like kind of a hole in the ground that they put, like, bamboo. [00:30:20] Speaker B: Not even particularly deep or anything. [00:30:23] Speaker A: No, it's just kind of like this little dugout hole. In the movie or in the book, it's described as this concrete, like, pillar, basically, with a door and then like, a single chair in it. And it were basically my. The way I would, like, envisioned it was like a concrete porta potty. [00:30:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:30:40] Speaker A: But a prison cell, basically, which I thought would have been interesting and kind of cool to see visually. More, at least more interesting than, again, what the pit is in the movie. [00:30:49] Speaker B: It seemed like the movie went more on, like, making it look like they built everything themselves. [00:30:55] Speaker A: They did. Because the homestead in the. In the book is also described as like, a house. [00:31:00] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:31:00] Speaker A: As in. And in the movie, all of the buildings were clearly built by them. Out of, like, sticks and stuff, which. I didn't mind that aesthetic. [00:31:07] Speaker B: I thought it looked fine. No, no. I thought that was a good aesthetic choice. [00:31:11] Speaker A: Yeah. I just think that they could have done a more interesting version of. And obviously, I guess you couldn't do concrete, but I don't know, something more similar to what. We see the description of the slammer in the book, but just do it in a version that the kids could have made, maybe. I don't know. Because. Yeah, I didn't mind having all the buildings and stuff look like they made them. I thought that was kind of fine. [00:31:32] Speaker B: Yeah. I Also, speaking of the slammer, I liked the detail of the chair in there, having one leg that was shorter than the rest. I thought that was funny. [00:31:42] Speaker A: Yeah. A little detail in the book that is not in the movie from my memory is during the scene where Chuck. And the one scene in the book where you get any sort of emotional. [00:31:56] Speaker B: Anything singular emotional moment in the story. [00:32:01] Speaker A: Between characters in the entire book is when Chuck or Thomas has to spend a day in the slammer. I think at least that's when it happens in the movie. I can't remember if that's when it happens in the book. I think it is. [00:32:13] Speaker B: I think so. [00:32:13] Speaker A: And Chuck comes to talk to him and brings him some food, and they have a conversation. And Chuck is kind of talking about, like, how he doesn't know his parents and he wants. He would, like, love to see his parents one day, and it makes him sad and they actually connect as people briefly for. It's the one time I cannot stress enough in this entire book where, like, two characters have, like, an emotional moment together or there's any attempt at, like, characterization or making us care about these characters. It's the singular dime. And it's pretty good in the book. One of the details that I thought was really nice in the book, and it's also pretty good in the movie, which we'll get to. But the one detail in the book that didn't make it into the movie is that Chuck starts to, like, get emotional talking about his parents that he doesn't know. And he's. Thomas can tell he's choking back, like, fighting back tears, and Thomas tells him that it's okay to cry. And I was like, whoa, A little positive masculinity moment in our. In our YA book here. I wasn't again with the rest of this book being so nothing. [00:33:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:15] Speaker A: I was kind of amazed at how little substance there was to this book. It's just a very straightforward, like, telling of events with almost zero thought put to, like, emotionally, what is going on with anything? It's so hard to describe. I couldn't get over again, comparing it to some of the Virgin or Hunger Games or whatever. It spends so little time worrying about what characters are thinking or going through or how they're being emotionally affected by any. There's like. I guess there's like, passive kind of lip service to that in moments of, like, describing characters as being scared or. You know what I mean? But, like. [00:34:01] Speaker B: Yeah, well. And I have a note about this kind of in my final verdict, that there's. There's a lot of showing, telling and not showing in this book where I think describing it as lip service is pretty accurate. Where the narrative will, like, tell us that somebody's scared or that somebody's sad or that somebody is confused or angry. But there's not really a whole lot of an attempt to evoke those emotions in the prose. Yes. To evoke those emotions within the prose or to evoke them in the reader. [00:34:39] Speaker A: Yes. [00:34:41] Speaker B: This moment with Chuck is like, the only time that the narrative attempts to evoke some kind of emotion within the reader. [00:34:50] Speaker A: I think it tries one more other time later with Theresa and him where they hold hands, but I don't care because we don't know anything about them. [00:34:56] Speaker B: But, yeah, Teresa was such a nothing character, But I think part of it. [00:35:00] Speaker A: Is the reason this works and feels like the only moment where this happens is because Chuck is talking about how he feels and talking about his life before this and his parents that he doesn't know. And you're like, yeah, this is what they should be talking about. This is the interesting stuff. And it's just none of it anyway. Sorry. [00:35:19] Speaker B: Yeah. And really, Chuck is supposed to be. And this becomes more clear by the end of the book, but to kind of make a comparison to the Hunger Games. Filling kind of a similar role to Rue. [00:35:34] Speaker A: Yes. [00:35:35] Speaker B: Where it's this other character that the main character has this connection with. And we, the readers, are also supposed to have a similar connection to this character, but there's not a whole lot of work put into helping us have that connection. [00:35:53] Speaker A: But it is. At least there's this scene. Because with every other character in the book, you don't even get a scene like this. It's literally. Yeah. You just get told things about them kind of. [00:36:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:02] Speaker A: In passing. Whereas this. You at least get one scene where I was like. I literally. It was like, I had a note when I read this scene. I was like, oh, Chuck prom. Or Thomas promises To Chuck, back to his parents. That's sweet. Chuck's definitely gonna die. Like, that was my note. [00:36:16] Speaker B: I was like, yeah, this kid is super de. [00:36:20] Speaker A: Yeah. But again, because it's. It's in the same way. And we'll get to this later in the same way. One of these other elements in the book is the only time anything like this happens. [00:36:31] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:36:32] Speaker A: It becomes so blatantly obvious what's going to happen because it's the only option. Because, again, obviously, Chuck's gonna die because he's the only character we have spent any amount of time creating any emotional stakes for at all. So obviously he has to die in the same way that this other thing that we'll talk about a little bit is the only thing that has ever developed and explored at all in terms of, like, a plot element. [00:36:58] Speaker B: Yeah. Obviously it's going to be the thing. [00:37:01] Speaker A: Yes. [00:37:02] Speaker B: Yeah. The scope of writing that we have seen on this show is so interesting. [00:37:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:13] Speaker B: And this one, to me, is very interesting because the writing itself, like, the nuts and bolts of it is serviceable. [00:37:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:37:25] Speaker B: But the actual, like, storytelling and, like, the way that the bigger blocks fit together is so rudimentary. [00:37:34] Speaker A: So rudimentary. That's the thing to me, what this feels like to me. And I. It feels like if I were writing a book, because I know my failures as a writer, I can talk about and break down a lot of, like, emotionally. I can find and sort of evaluate and analyze, like, emotionally layered and interesting books and stories and films. I don't think I'm super good at writing those things, but I can, like, see them. And those are the stories I like to see. I say that. I don't know. I've never really tried, you know, But I can imagine myself writing a book like this where it's very much the nuts and bolts, like, descriptions of. It's more so focused on what is happening and getting us through the narrative. Because he has this. The writer came up with this interesting idea for a maze and reverse engineered. Why would all these kids be in a maze? And then came up with this kind of framework for it, which we'll see where that goes. I have notes about that later, but, like, came up with that idea and then reverse engineered, like, how. Why are these kids in the maze? But then spent, like, seemingly zero time going, okay, now I need to come up with interesting characters to put in this scenario. And just said, nah, he didn't seem to care about that. [00:38:56] Speaker B: Yeah, well, I don't know. It's interesting because, like, he clearly understands that like, okay, if I am going to kill off this character and I want it to be a big emotional moment at the end, I need to have an emotional moment before that with this character. Clearly the author understands the nuts and bolts of how that works, but can't seem to execute it. [00:39:29] Speaker A: Yes, well. And I think more so goes. Well, I think it's more so of knows he needs to do that, but then goes, okay, well, I did that. Job done. [00:39:40] Speaker B: Yes. [00:39:41] Speaker A: It doesn't realize I should. I should also do this for other characters that aren't gonna die immediately because those characters also need to be interesting in order for. You know what I mean? Like. [00:39:53] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:39:54] Speaker A: You know, I also need to have. I can't only do these things. You can. He understands the setup and the payoff for the very important things where, like that have to be in place for the story to work at all. [00:40:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:40:07] Speaker A: But for the story to be good, there's a bunch of other parts that need to be fleshed out. And that stuff is all ignored. Either by choice. Probably not by choice, but probably just by. Again, to me, it feels like me writing a book where I just don't have quite. You know, I think I'm a talented writer in some ways, but I don't. I don't think I could write like a super involved emotional character, like, sprawling story, even something like the Hunger Games or whatever, where, you know, you have all these intricate relationships between these characters with very different motivations and layered and nuanced reasons for acting the way they do and different political motivations and all that sort of stuff. This book has none of that. [00:40:48] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely none of it. [00:40:50] Speaker A: Part of that is because of the premise, which we'll get to. Yeah, I think it's like it's held back by its premise a little bit. But anyways, it's fascinating. But yeah, this one moment is like the only moment in the book. And like I said, I did appreciate though that we get a little bit of positive masculinity. [00:41:07] Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. [00:41:08] Speaker A: At least that's something in this book. Another little detail that doesn't make it in the movie that I liked is they mentioned that they have runny undies is what they call them. Yes. Which is what the runners wear so that they don't chafe. [00:41:21] Speaker B: That cracked me the fuck up. The fact that Dashner felt it was important enough to clarify that they had access to special underwear to protect their balls while they're running. Hilarious to me. [00:41:35] Speaker A: They also mentioned in this a detail that I thought was interesting. It Never goes anywhere interesting. But it could have, is that they can request things from the creators, they can put notes in the box and then sometimes they'll get the things they ask for. Which I was like, well, that's compelling and interesting. I wonder if they could use that in some way to outsmart the crazy. [00:41:57] Speaker B: I wonder nothing ever. [00:41:59] Speaker A: Yeah, literally they mentioned they can do that and then we're already towards the end and things kind of just accelerate. [00:42:05] Speaker B: I think they mentioned that they asked for a TV once and didn't get it. [00:42:08] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:42:09] Speaker B: But that's like beyond it being like a one off joke. [00:42:12] Speaker A: Yes. [00:42:13] Speaker B: It doesn't like the. There is no care to do anything with that. [00:42:17] Speaker A: Because I was like, man, that could. That could be interesting because they could come up with some clever. Like what, what if we request this thing and like try to outsmart them by. If we get something that they don't know that we could use it for. I don't know, like you could come up with something interesting with that. And it's just. It's never comes up again. [00:42:32] Speaker B: All right. [00:42:33] Speaker A: But it was at least interesting and it's not in the movie. Another detail that, and we mentioned this earlier, but that in the book they are in a completely artificial environment. And when we get towards the climax of the book, they wake up one morning and the sky has been turned off. [00:42:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:42:50] Speaker A: And they realize. Thomas realizes first, but they start to realize, oh, we're in like a big, big building or whatever. [00:42:58] Speaker B: Yeah. I think somebody even says, like, it kind of looks like a ceiling. [00:43:01] Speaker A: Yes. It's just this big. They say the sky is like gray and there's no sun or whatever. And then basically the sky has been turned off because the, the maze is ending essentially. And I thought that would have been cool. [00:43:14] Speaker B: I. I was pretty disappointed that that didn't happen in the movie actually, because I thought it could have been a really cool effect. [00:43:20] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And they just. Yeah. Towards the end of the story, Thomas realizes that in order for them to figure out what to do, he needs to remember his past. And the best way to do that, or the only way to do that is to get stung by a Griever. [00:43:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:43:37] Speaker A: Because when you go through the changing, you get some of your memories. And so in the movie he does this by. They. The Grievers attack and they cut off one of the stingers that has like the little hypodermic needle that they inject him with the venom or whatever with. And Thomas is holding that when he realizes he needs to do this. So he just injects himself with it in the book. I thought it was more compelling and would have been more dramatic and fun is when he realizes that in the same scene when they're getting attacked by the Grievers, he goes, I need to remember. So he runs out into a pack of Grievers and gets stung, like, a bunch of times by them. And they're all like, what are you. Like, when he starts running out there, they're like, what are you doing? I just thought that would have been more compelling, and I understand why they didn't do it. I'm sure that's more of just like. Well, it's simpler if he just has it. And then we don't have to, like, animate this whole thing of him getting attacked by a bunch of Grievers. Blah, blah. It's fine. The movie's version is fine. I just thought the book's version of him running into a pack of Reavers was more dramatic and fun. [00:44:36] Speaker B: Well, I wonder if maybe that had something to do with a rating, too. [00:44:40] Speaker A: Could be. [00:44:41] Speaker B: Could be. [00:44:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:44:42] Speaker B: Because the movie is fairly bloodless. [00:44:44] Speaker A: It is. [00:44:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:44:45] Speaker A: Which I have a note about. [00:44:45] Speaker B: Yeah. Speaking of tangentially related, I thought that the description of their homemade weapons in the book was far more interesting than anything we see in the movie. Because in the movie, they basically just have, like, big, long sticks that they sharpen into spears. But in the book, it talks about how they're, like, tying knives on the. [00:45:07] Speaker A: Ends because they have a bunch of weapons in the book, which they don't in the movie. [00:45:11] Speaker B: Wrapping, barbed wire around everything. I don't know. I thought that could have been more visually interesting. [00:45:17] Speaker A: Yeah. And the issue there is because in the movie, they don't have that store of weapons that they do in the book. And then they take those weapons and turn them into, like, bigger weapons, basically to help fight the Grievers. But, yeah, I thought that would have been fun, too. A little detail in the book that I enjoyed is that when they're getting ready to go, they realize they need to try to escape because the maze is shutting down or whatever, and the Grievers are just going to come. In the book, they explained that the Grievers are gonna come and kill one of them every night, basically. [00:45:47] Speaker B: Which is another thing that's kind of convoluted. [00:45:50] Speaker A: Absolutely. So they decide they need to just get out. Or Thomas and some of the people in the Glade are like, all right, we gotta fight our way to the Griever hole and go in. Because in his memory, he realizes that he can shut down the maze in there. There's a computer in there that he can use to shut down the maze. So when they, they're getting ready to leave, to go on this battle to go fight through the Grievers to get to the hole, Minnow Minho gives a speech and they're like, you're. You're the keeper of the runners. You got a speech. And he just goes, be careful, don't die. And they're all just like, okay. And then Newt gives an actual speech that gets them all fired up. I thought it would have been fun to see that. Like that's like a ready made movie comedy of Minho giving like a truncated bad speech. You know what I mean? Like, I was surprised they didn't do that, but I enjoyed it in the book. Speaking of that, when they do go to fight, and you mentioned this earlier in the book, they have to fight their way to the edge of the cliff. And there's like 15 grievers between them and the cliff. [00:46:54] Speaker B: Yeah, like a crazy number of Grievers. [00:46:57] Speaker A: Ton of them that they have to fight their way through. And like there's 40 of them when they get there. And like half of them make it into the. The hole essentially. And so like a lot of them are just getting like murdered by Grievers. And the movie you see a couple people like get thrown off the. Because there was like a cliff on the side of the ramp that they're. [00:47:18] Speaker B: On in the movie. [00:47:18] Speaker A: And you see like a kid fall, get thrown off that or whatever. So you see a couple people presumably die, but it's very bloodless. And again, understandably so. This is like a PG13 movie made for, you know, teenagers and preteens. So I understand why they don't have like this big bloody, messed up battle at the end. But it definitely ups the stakes in the book that a bunch of these kids are roaring into battle to their deaths. Essentially. [00:47:45] Speaker B: A moment that cracked me up in the book was after this battle, they're like taking account of who all died and somebody, I forget who says it is like half of us are gone. Yeah, but so and so and so and so and. And then basically names. Every single named character. [00:48:07] Speaker A: All the characters, all the characters with names. Characters you've never heard of before made it. [00:48:11] Speaker B: Don't worry, you guys, all the named characters are fine. [00:48:14] Speaker A: Yeah, Jeff dies. Who the is Jeff? I don't know. Yeah, because is that what. Isn't that what it was in the summary? [00:48:20] Speaker B: Yeah, Jeff. [00:48:22] Speaker A: Yeah, Jeff and Several other bladers are killed by grass. It actually is fitting that we were like, who the is, Jeff? Because it's the same in the book. The people who D are no named people that you have no idea who they are. They shut down the maze by punching in some codes or whatever. It's different in the book. In the movie, we'll talk about that. I actually, we'll get to that in a later segment. After they shut down the maze, though, they get into this, like, lab in the book. And similarly in the movie, they get into the place where it's the lab for wicked, which is the organization that runs this maze. And in the book they arrive and they're all there. Like, the Wicked people are all there. [00:49:05] Speaker B: And all the scientists are, like, watching. [00:49:07] Speaker A: They're like, watching them. And this woman walks in who we never hear her name in the book. I assume later that is supposed to be Ava, who is probably. [00:49:13] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:14] Speaker A: But she comes in and while she's, like, talking to them, and as she's talking to them, some guys with guns burst through the door and just execute her in front of them and just like, shoot her. [00:49:27] Speaker B: And. [00:49:27] Speaker A: And it's like, holy, what is happening? Like, it's crazy. And the movie does this by having all of that. They arrive and all of the scientists and stuff are dead already. And then they watch a recording of Ava doing, like a video recording while all of the gunfire is happening in the background and, like, the guys with guns are coming in shooting everybody. [00:49:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:49:51] Speaker A: And then she shoots herself. And I thought that was really silly and kind of cheesy and just. I much prefer. Because the book's version is such like a. Whoa. What? [00:50:00] Speaker B: Yes. That was wild. Reading the book, I was like, what is this deus ex machina happening in front of my eyes? That was one thing that really made me wish that I had maybe watched the movie before reading the book or that we had a non reader control group for this episode. So if you. [00:50:21] Speaker A: If you didn't. [00:50:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:50:22] Speaker A: If you were somebody who just watched. [00:50:23] Speaker B: Just watched the movie, let us know how you felt about this. Because I felt like watching the recording in the movie made it feel obvious to me that it was staged. [00:50:34] Speaker A: I thought it looked pretty obvious. Yeah. [00:50:36] Speaker B: Whereas in the book I was, like, completely surprised. Very caught off guard. [00:50:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:50:40] Speaker B: But I don't know. Like, I'm questioning whether the movie meant it to look like it was staged or if I just think that because I already knew it was staged from reading the movie. [00:50:52] Speaker A: So it looked more fake to you because you knew it Was fake. [00:50:54] Speaker B: Because I knew it was fake. [00:50:55] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. [00:50:56] Speaker B: So if you only watched the movie, please chime in and let us know what you thought of that scene. [00:51:02] Speaker A: If you were surprised at the end when it was revealed that Ava was alive and it was all a rose or not. Yeah. In the book and the movie, after this all happens at the. They slightly change the order of events in the movie, but after they get to the lab and Ava is there and alive in the book, she's dead in the movie. But Gally shows up. In the book, Gally is with Ava. Like, she brings him in with her. And in the movie, he just shows up. And I will say him showing up at the end makes more sense in the book to me. Because in the book, earlier, we saw him run and jump onto a Griever during one of the earlier attacks. And everybody's assumed he was dead, but he got hauled off by the Griever into the maze. Like, we don't know what happened happened to him, but we assume he died. [00:51:47] Speaker B: We assume he died, but clearly the Griever, like, takes him back. [00:51:50] Speaker A: Takes him back. Because Minho follows and goes, yeah, he took him and went into the hole. So they know he went down in the hole. And so you're like, oh, he was alive and they got him and now they're using him or whatever. And in the movie, he just shows up behind him. [00:52:07] Speaker B: He just, like, appears there. [00:52:09] Speaker A: And, like, I guess he picked up a gun from one of the people on the ground because he's also carrying a gun now, I assume. I think he does pick it up from somebody, like, one of the people who was killed or whatever. And so I thought that. Because you're like, how did he get there? But also there's a detail that the movie completely cuts out, is that in the movie, he's seemingly just motivated by his anger. He is stung at this point. I think his eyes are all weird. But he's seemingly exclusively motivated by his anger at Thomas for ruining everything, essentially. Because the whole premise. And we'll get into this, the whole premise is that they kind of tweak Gally's character quite a bit. And in the movie, he's more of this voice of, like, no, we should stay here. We have a. If we stay together and stay in this group in the Glade, we can survive here. Like, we've created this place or whatever. And in the book, that's not really his motivation. In the book, his motivation is he hates Thomas. [00:53:07] Speaker B: Question mark because of reasons. Because Remembers him kinda. [00:53:12] Speaker A: But in the book, when he shows up and kills Chuck accidentally while trying to kill Thomas at the end. In the book, he explicitly says as he pulls out a knife to throw at Thomas, he's like, I can't. They're controlling me. Or I can't control this or something. He has some line about how it's like he's not doing this. And then he throws the knife and Chuck gets killed. In the movie, he absolutely intentionally just shoots at Thomas and Chuck gets hit and dies. But again, he is stung and has gone through the changing. So he's like not completely of his own mind. It's a little messy. Anyways, I like everything else the movie does with Gally other than this last scene. I felt like the book's version of the ending. Also the idea that this organization was using him was creepy and interesting. Feels important. Yeah, it feels important. And the fact that the movie leaves that out felt strange. So. I don't know, I just prefer the way the book handled Gali showing up and killing Chuck at the end. [00:54:12] Speaker B: No, I agree. And I had. I had to go back and check because I was so positive that Gally died in the book. [00:54:21] Speaker A: Oh, and that was. The other note is that in the movie we then see after he shoots him, Minho, I think, throws a spear at him and it impales him in the chest and he seemingly dies in the movie. Now you thought maybe he doesn't. And I think you might be right. We'll see. [00:54:35] Speaker B: I had to go back and check in the book. Cause I was like positive that he died in the book. But the last we see of him in the book, it says he's not moving, but still breathing. [00:54:45] Speaker A: Yes. Because in the book I was like, I don't remember him dying at all. And in the movie we explicitly. Or I didn't remember anything happening to him. But in the. In the movie we explicitly see him take a spear right in the chest. [00:54:56] Speaker B: Right. [00:54:56] Speaker A: And it's implied that he dies. [00:54:58] Speaker B: I. I feel like the movie implied that maybe he could still be alive. [00:55:03] Speaker A: I think you're probably right. And I think that would make sense for him to come back. [00:55:05] Speaker B: Yeah. And I would have to watch it again. But like, as they're leaving, we get like a kind of a close up of his face. [00:55:11] Speaker A: We do. [00:55:11] Speaker B: And it kind of looks like he's watching them leave. I thought, I don't know. [00:55:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:17] Speaker B: And I feel like this universe definitely has like the future tech to heal him 100%. So I feel like he could come back. [00:55:24] Speaker A: I Would almost bet he will. [00:55:26] Speaker B: But I agree with you that the books version makes more sense overall. [00:55:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:55:33] Speaker B: And I just. I don't know how he could have possibly followed them. [00:55:37] Speaker A: Yeah. Because he stayed in the glade in the movie. Then he got stuck. I guess maybe the idea is that he got stung and remembered and knew to go to the door and was able to. You know what I mean? [00:55:48] Speaker B: Maybe. [00:55:48] Speaker A: I don't know. I'm not sure. I don't think it makes a lot of sense. Again, the books version makes slightly more sense, but it's. [00:55:55] Speaker B: But it's also convoluted. [00:55:57] Speaker A: It's also convoluted and messy in other ways. So it's. None of it's great, which is just true generally about both of these things, so. And then my final note of a thing that the movie leaves out that I was a little disappointed in is after they get rescued by this insurgent group or whatever, you know, these rebels or whatever they are that Rush. Well, we know what they are. They're not rebels, but these purported to be rebels that come in to save them. As they're leaving, they're like running to a bus, like a school bus to drive away. And as they're going to the bus, Thomas gets tackled by this woman. I guess it's just outside or whatever. [00:56:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:56:33] Speaker A: And she like tackles him and she says she, like, is covered in all these sores and she smells crazy. Just smells like. Like milk or some. Like spoiled milk or something like that. I assume we're supposed to assume that she is infected by this. This. [00:56:48] Speaker B: Right. This pandemic. [00:56:49] Speaker A: The flare. [00:56:50] Speaker B: Flare, it's called. [00:56:52] Speaker A: But she runs over and she tackles him and she's like, you're going to save us all from the flare. Don't believe what they tell you or something like that. And she says this cryptic thing to him as she's like, like tackles and holding. Holding him down. And then they were able to get him away from her, get him on the bus, and then she like, runs after them and they run her over with the bus, which was gnarly. I thought that was an intriguing, like, final little moment. And the movie just cuts that out completely. [00:57:17] Speaker B: Honestly, everything that happened after their quote unquote rescue gave me like, a little shining sliver of Hope for book 2. [00:57:27] Speaker A: Could not agree with this more because. [00:57:29] Speaker B: I felt like it. It felt like James Dashner was more interested in world building for outside of the maze than inside. There was like more world building in that little short scene where they're going to the bus than in the entire other 360 pages of this book. [00:57:47] Speaker A: Again, partially because he's hamstrung by the premise where we're supposed to. We're in this maze and nobody knows why they're there, and we don't know why they're there, so we can't learn it anything. Like, we. We. We are also equally in the dark intentionally because of the premise. And. Yeah, no, I agree. I. I actually, like I said, like you just said, I was like, okay, maybe that now, like, most of my problems with this book will be solved going forward because we don't have to stick to the. Nobody remembers anything. Nobody knows anything about themselves. You know what I mean? Like, we can move past that and actually start learning things about the characters. [00:58:24] Speaker B: Theoretically, they'll be able to, like, find out new information now that they're outside of the maze. [00:58:29] Speaker A: Yes, Again, they're still in the experiment, so who knows how. But. But ideally, hopefully, they'll at least be able to learn a little bit about themselves and. And we'll be able to get more of that character stuff that makes. [00:58:40] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:58:40] Speaker A: It interesting at all and not just like a follow, like a puzzle box that we're trying to unsolve or, you know, figure out. I. Again, I. Very similarly, I was like, okay, maybe the second. Second, like, maybe it'll get better from here. Like, this is at least, like, an interesting ending. Like, yeah, maybe something compelling will happen. [00:58:59] Speaker B: One would hope. [00:59:00] Speaker A: We will see. [00:59:02] Speaker B: Also, I liked that they got to eat a pizza. [00:59:05] Speaker A: Yeah, they. [00:59:06] Speaker B: At the end of the book, pizza. They got a pizza party after getting out of the maze. I was happy for them. I was, though, concerned that the book did not mention whether or not they got to bait. [00:59:19] Speaker A: I assume they did because they went. [00:59:21] Speaker B: Down the big, long tunnel and it was, like, slimy. [00:59:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And then they also killed a bunch of Grievous covered in Griever goo or whatever. [00:59:28] Speaker B: So I hope they got to bathe. [00:59:29] Speaker A: One would hope. All right, those are all of our notes for things that we thought were better in the book. It's time now to discuss what we thought was better in the movie. My life has taught me one lesson, Hugo, and not the one I thought it would. Happy endings only happen in the movies. Literally, five minutes into this movie, we. [00:59:51] Speaker B: Both had, like, a visceral reaction to the first few minutes of this movie. [00:59:55] Speaker A: I wrote. The first note I wrote while watching the movie was, I can already tell this is going to be so much better than the book. And I think one of the first details that really helped Was that. Is that after Thomas arrives, he immediately bolts and runs. And Newt yells, we've got a runner. And he just runs. And then he's like, eat shit and fall. I can't remember what happens. It doesn't really matter. But just immediately planting the seed of. [01:00:21] Speaker B: Like, little foreshadowing moment. [01:00:23] Speaker A: Yes. And just adding that, because that does not happen in the book. He just comes up and he just kind of like talks to people or whatever. But him immediately running and planting that seed of like, okay, he's a runner. He, like, what does he do when he sees a problem or when he's scared or when he doesn't know what to do? He runs. Boom. Maze runner is a runner. All right. And I was like, God, he's in. [01:00:43] Speaker B: A maze and he's running. [01:00:44] Speaker A: Yes. I'm like, this is from moment one. I can already tell this is going to be so much better than the book because it just, like, it seems. It almost seems too obvious, but it totally works. And it's just like, oh, it was so refreshing. And boy, did that happen continually throughout the film. For the most part. For the most part. Also, in a similar note, it helps so much in a film when you have bad characters that lack any characterization in a book. Just by the mere property of translating it into a movie where you have actors playing those characters, the presence of actors, all of a sudden you have actual characters. [01:01:25] Speaker B: Thank you, actors for existing. [01:01:27] Speaker A: Yes. And again, there's a lot of writer and director, a bunch of other people going to that. But holy shit, you have actors doing a performance that all of us instantly gives these characters character, like, immediately. And you're like, oh, my God, there's a difference between Newt and Alby and Gali. And they all feel like different people with their own things going on, even if it's not that much. It's not like they're amazing characters or anything, but it's at least something. Whereas in the book, they're all identical. Might as well be identical. They're all brooding assholes for the most part. And it's just like, okay. Like, that was the thing that drove me crazy. It's like when he meets Gally, he's like, this galley guy's an asshole. Then he meets Minho and he's like, this guy's kind of an asshole, but I like him. And then he meets Newt and he's like, he's kind of an asshole. It's. It's like. And then Alby is like an asshole. It's like, everybody's an Asshole. [01:02:18] Speaker B: And Thomas is also an asshole. [01:02:20] Speaker A: It's like, what is. It's like there's no nuance or there's not even nuance. There's just no. Nothing interesting about them as characters. But the movie. And again, it's not like it's a lot, but there's at least a little bit of like, oh, I can kind of see the type of person Alby is. I can kind of see the type of person Newt is. I can kind of see the type of person Gally is. It's just. Oh, it's so much better. [01:02:41] Speaker B: It reminded me. And we have other notes similar to this. Reminded me a lot of 50 shades of gray. [01:02:49] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. Another detail right off the bat in the movie that instantly I was like, oh, my God, this is so much better than the book. Book is that on Thomas's first night they have like a big, like, welcoming party. [01:03:01] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:03:01] Speaker A: And they burn this wig. Big weird, like, effigy of, I think a Griever maybe. I'm not sure what it's supposed to be. [01:03:07] Speaker B: Yeah. I couldn't tell. But it doesn't matter. [01:03:09] Speaker A: Matter. It's something. [01:03:11] Speaker B: It's something infinitely more interesting. [01:03:14] Speaker A: Yeah. And they have this party where they're all like wrestling each other. And then him and Newt go. And Newt explains, like, while this party's going on, they like, have a drink together and they're drinking like, you know, some weird homemade alcohol of some sort. And Newt is explaining like a little bit of the maze to him. And it all just. It's so much better. It feels so much better than. [01:03:36] Speaker B: So much better. I. As soon as they lit that effigy on fire, I was like, oh, yeah, some weird tribal. That's the kind of Lord of the Flies I am here for. [01:03:46] Speaker A: And again, it's not like the movie does a ton of this and it's not. Not even like it's particularly good. It's just something. And the book gives us almost nothing. It's terror. It's crazy. Yeah. [01:03:56] Speaker B: Also, I think kudos to the movie for acknowledging that a bunch of teenage boys left to their own devices would brew their own alcohol. [01:04:05] Speaker A: Absolutely. A world building detail that is a huge W for the movie is the decision to change the name of the organization that designed the maze from Wicked. Literally, the word wicked, W, I C, K, E, D to the acronym wicked wckd. [01:04:28] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, my God. I got for real secondhand embarrassment every time I read Wicked in the book. Like, you might as well have named it Evil Incorporated. [01:04:38] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, and the thing that's annoying. It's like, I understand what they're doing is because he wants this, like, trying to figure out, like, what does that mean? Like, you see. Because he sees the word WICKED in several places. [01:04:48] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:04:49] Speaker A: And he's like, what does that mean? And then, like, later on when Teresa shows up, she has WICKED is good, like, written on her arm. Like, what is that? But it's so dumb because we find out it stands for World in Catastrophe, Kill Kill Zone Experiment Department. [01:05:11] Speaker B: Just the most ham fisted acronym. [01:05:13] Speaker A: It's the most ham fisted acronym. [01:05:14] Speaker B: You. [01:05:14] Speaker A: And also, you don't put words like in. [01:05:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:05:19] Speaker A: You know what I mean? Like, it's not how acronyms work normally usually. So. So WCKD works because it's just World Catastrophe Kill Zone department. Sure, sure, Fine. Whatever. That sounds like a real thing. Maybe, you know, like a. [01:05:32] Speaker B: Sounds like a more real thing than wicked. [01:05:35] Speaker A: Yeah. But you and the thing that's annoying is that in the book, you could even. You could have them be WCKD and still do the WICKED is good thing. Like, where, like, he doesn't see the word wicked on stuff, but you could still have the, like, mystery around when Teresa shows up. Because we don't know what WICKED is when she shows up. She could show up and she could have the thought in her head that she's. And she shares this with Thomas. Wicked is good. I don't know what it means. And he's like, oh, I don't either. And then eventually they see some thing on the wall that is like, you know, WCKD department. And he's like, wck Wicked. Wicked is. And then they were, you know, like, they put it together. But it's. It was so dumb that the organization was literally wicked. It's not how acronyms work. It's not. It's. It's just. [01:06:20] Speaker B: It's so. [01:06:21] Speaker A: Again, a lot of it. It's so. First draft. [01:06:25] Speaker B: Yes. Oh, my God. And it kind of drove me crazy too, that, like, okay, wicked. What does that mean? Sure. But at no point is he ever like, I don't know what it means, but it doesn't sound good. [01:06:39] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Because it's the word Wicked. [01:06:41] Speaker B: Because that would be my first thought. Like, I don't know why this word is here, but it can't be good. [01:06:47] Speaker A: Yeah, it's so. It's so strange. It's. Yeah, it's dumb. Another thing that's better in the movie, and we've talked about this briefly, but the way the changing and the grief serum is handled, I thought is way better in the movie, because it's just simplified. [01:07:01] Speaker B: It's just messy. [01:07:03] Speaker A: It's messy in both a little bit, but it's way messier in the book. One of the things that first cued me off in the movie to the fact that it was gonna be different is that when he's talking to Newt in one of those opening scenes, Newt says, oh, you hear that? Those are grievers. We call them grievers. No one's ever seen one and lived to talk about it. And I was like, wait a second. What? [01:07:21] Speaker B: I was immediately at that line. I was like, interesting. [01:07:24] Speaker A: Because in the book, the way you. Several people in the book at this point, numerous people have gone through the changing because they have been stung by grievers and then get the serum and go through the changing and survive or whatever. So people have seen Grievers and survived in the book or. And have lived to talk about it in the book. But in the movie, they change that because the serum doesn't exist yet. They don't have it yet. Initially. There is no grief serum in the movie. What happens is when they get stung, they just kind of go feral. They, like, turn into zombies, kind of. [01:07:57] Speaker B: And they get banished. [01:07:59] Speaker A: Yes. And then they banish them because they become these weird, like. [01:08:03] Speaker B: Like violent zombies. [01:08:05] Speaker A: Yeah, basically. And I thought that makes perfect sense because, like, well, we. You have this weird. We can't do anything with you. You're not, you know, whatever. The thing in the book that was really weird and, like, didn't work to me and felt, like, poorly thought out was that in the. Unless it's a metaphor for something that I'm not. Which I. I was trying to. With the whole thing. I was like, what is this a metaphor for? [01:08:28] Speaker B: Yeah, I was really. I was trying to sniff out the Mormon. [01:08:32] Speaker A: I don't know. I don't know enough about Mormonism. Maybe there's something there because obviously you get some vibes of, like, the Garden of Eden, kind of. [01:08:38] Speaker B: Sure. Yeah. [01:08:39] Speaker A: Like, Thomas and Teresa being like, you know, the man and the woman and. But I don't know. Maybe there's something going on there, but I'm not sure. I. I can't. Couldn't piece together what it was. And I was like, maybe the changing is something to do with, like, forbidden knowledge or. Yes, something like that. Also maybe some allusions to, like, just maturing and, like. Like, going through puberty and becoming, like. You know, like, when kids go through puberty and start to get, like, testosterone and become, like, assholes. I don't. I don't know. I don't know. But the thing that's really weird and convoluted in the book is that that they say the whole thing is if you get stung by a Griever, you die if you don't get the serum. [01:09:16] Speaker B: Right. [01:09:17] Speaker A: You have to get the serum within some amount of time or you die. [01:09:20] Speaker B: Or so they think. [01:09:20] Speaker A: Or so they think. And that's a whole nother layer of weird convolutednesses. They're like, oh, if you don't get it within, like, by that night, you die. But no, actually, it turns out you can go longer. They just assumed you died because nobody's ever gotten stung and then, like, gone. [01:09:36] Speaker B: That long, then gotten serum. [01:09:37] Speaker A: Because in order to get stung, you have to be out in the maze, and in order to get the serum, you obviously have to get back into the Glade to get the serum. And so anybody who has gotten stung and hasn't gotten back to the Glade to get the serum has just spent the night in the maze. Which means they die. [01:09:54] Speaker B: Right. [01:09:54] Speaker A: Because the Grievers just kill them. So they assume you would. It's. Again, I cannot stress enough how, like, poorly thought out it is, in my opinion. And then. So the whole thing is, though. So if you get stung in the move in the book, and then you get the serum, you don't die. You go through the changing. [01:10:11] Speaker B: Right. [01:10:12] Speaker A: But also, it seems like the changing kind of starts when you get stung. [01:10:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:10:16] Speaker A: And then gets exacerbated by the changing. [01:10:19] Speaker B: Is the changing get it from getting stung or is it from getting the serum? [01:10:23] Speaker A: It's from getting the serum in the book. In the movie, it's from getting stung, right? Yes. [01:10:28] Speaker B: Yes. [01:10:31] Speaker A: In the book, it's from getting the serum is like, what puts you through the changing Kind of. But the thing that's really annoying in the book, they're like, okay, we got to get him back. Like, when they're trying to get Albie back there, like, we got to get him back because he got stung. And then he can get the serum, and then he'll go through the changing, but then he'll survive. But then we find out that everybody who goes through the changing sucks and, like, becomes an asshole, and nobody. And then they still end up banishing. [01:10:54] Speaker B: Half of them, it seems like, anyways, they're different now. [01:10:57] Speaker A: They're different now, and they don't. And it's like, so why do you even want to do, like, might as well just let them die. Like, if they're gonna be comfortable. This sullen like nightmare person who you don't want to be. I don't know. It's very messy and I don't even understand. And then same thing. Like, because that. And that's what. What the change with Ben at the beginning helps is that in the movie or in the book, he has been stung and gone through the changing. [01:11:20] Speaker B: Yes. [01:11:21] Speaker A: And then he attacks Thomas because he has these vague memories. [01:11:25] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:11:25] Speaker A: But he's like. He's not like actively like rage virused. He's just post changing. [01:11:31] Speaker B: Right. [01:11:31] Speaker A: Whereas in the movie they make it where he has gotten stun and is like mid changing or whatever. And so he's like in the, like. [01:11:39] Speaker B: He'S like on his way to becoming the rage zombie. [01:11:42] Speaker A: Yeah. And so that just makes. [01:11:45] Speaker B: It makes so much more. [01:11:46] Speaker A: It makes so much more sense. I, again, I cannot stress enough how it makes very little sense in the movie or in the book. And then the other thing the movie does is they. They still need the grief serum because they need Thomas to get stung by the thing so he can remember, but also not become a complete rage zombie. So then the grief serum shows up and they only get two vials of it, but they're able to use that to stop the change or to. I don't know what. [01:12:13] Speaker B: It does heal Alby. [01:12:15] Speaker A: Yeah. And I guess the implication in the book is that Thomas is just gonna not be a weird asshole because he goes through the changing in the book and everything we know is that everybody who goes through the changing becomes like an asshole kind of. [01:12:29] Speaker B: Yeah. But it's almost like with Alby, it's almost like he's depressed. [01:12:35] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:12:36] Speaker B: After he goes through and like gets his memories back. [01:12:39] Speaker A: And I think the idea. Because the idea with that is that they remember the world previously and like all the bad shit. And so they're like, well, this is all pointless because even if we get out of here, what's the point? Like, the world's fucked anyways. And I guess the idea is that Thomas is like, different in that he knows more about like the mission and stuff. So like. Or about like the test and what they're doing so that him going through the changing, he'll still be able to like, hold on some level of like. [01:13:08] Speaker B: He can like, look past. [01:13:09] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:13:10] Speaker B: Or something. [01:13:11] Speaker A: It's a mess. I don't. The whole chaining thing in both is kind of a mess. But it's at least less messy. [01:13:17] Speaker B: Yeah. It's a little more streamlined in the movie, I think. [01:13:22] Speaker A: I don't. I think it's a very clumsy plot device. In both of them. [01:13:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:13:27] Speaker A: That is like I can see what he. Dashner was going for, but I just don't. I think he needed to sit and like. Okay, let me really think through like what the effects of this are. [01:13:40] Speaker B: Yes. [01:13:40] Speaker A: And like what I want that to mean and like why the effects are that and like what that, like what the changing does to a person and like what that. It just feels like he didn't really think through that and so just kind. [01:13:52] Speaker B: Of like, you know, I feel like I say this so much when we cover YA properties for the summer series. [01:14:02] Speaker A: This is, it's already, it's reminding me very much of Divergent. These are very much. They're very similar. Which funny because I actually think Divergent felt more coherent than this already. Or maybe not more coherent, but more. [01:14:13] Speaker B: It's like six of one. I think. [01:14:15] Speaker A: I think the thing that at least Divergent has that this doesn't is that at least in Divergent some of the characters were. [01:14:20] Speaker B: Yeah, there was, there was better character work and Divergent. But I, I feel like I said this with Divergent. I know I said this with 50 shades. Where are the content editors? [01:14:33] Speaker A: Yeah, that's crazy for these series. [01:14:36] Speaker B: Like it's, it's nuts. Like, why was somebody not like, I understand. Okay. Ya dystopian fiction. It's really hot right now. So we're get it on, get it on the presses. But why was there not somebody going through this and saying, okay man, this is an interesting idea. Yeah, let's hammer out some details. [01:15:03] Speaker A: It's got to be the thing you're saying. It's just we got to get it on the shelves. [01:15:06] Speaker B: We got to get it on the shelves. [01:15:07] Speaker A: Good enough. And to be fair, I think I said, I said to you, like, if I read this when I was 12, I would have liked it. I don't think it would have stuck with me like something like Harry Potter did, but I think I would have enjoyed reading it because it is like an interesting fun like chapter to chapter reading experience. It's also, and I was going to put this in my final verdict and I never found a good way to work it in, but of these, all of these series that we've done, this one feels by far either intentional or not the would have the youngest readers. [01:15:45] Speaker B: I agree. [01:15:46] Speaker A: It's the simplest. Like it's the most like easy to read and digest. Like there's not anything going on in it. Like, you know what I mean? Like it's. [01:15:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:15:53] Speaker A: There's not like deeper like thematic layers or anything Seemingly like it's just very much a straightforward. Like, oh, they're in a maze, gotta get out of the maze. What happens? I don't know. Whereas like, Hunger Games has like a lot of like. [01:16:06] Speaker B: Right. There's a lot of heavy lifting. There's a lot of character work in the Hunger Games and even Divergent. There's more character work. There's more. At least attempts at thematic and world building. [01:16:19] Speaker A: Even if it's clumsy and bad, it's still similarly, it's at least trying. Whereas this one, I was like, this feels like it's. It's designed for like the youngest audience. [01:16:28] Speaker B: I agree. [01:16:29] Speaker A: Of all of these series that we've done. And again, I don't know if that. If it was designed that way or if it's just a result of Dashner's writing style that it ends up being like, seemingly like this is for like 8 year old. Not 8 year olds, but I don't know, a younger audience than the Hunger Games or whatever. [01:16:44] Speaker B: It feels more like it's verging on middle grade. [01:16:47] Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. [01:16:48] Speaker B: Than like a ya. [01:16:50] Speaker A: Apart from its length, which it's. It's kind of long for like a middle, you know, but a middle grade. But it is. The content is very much like, yeah. [01:16:59] Speaker B: Yeah, I could have read this when. [01:17:00] Speaker A: I was much younger. [01:17:01] Speaker B: And I think too, another thing that kind of separates that is that there's almost a complete lack of that kind of romantic element that we often see with ya. I mean, Thomas thinks Teresa's hot, but that's about as far as that goes. And then also like, like the made up slang and like. [01:17:23] Speaker A: Yeah, we can't have cursing. [01:17:25] Speaker B: So we can have cursing, but we can say the word shuck. [01:17:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:17:28] Speaker B: And clunk. [01:17:29] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:17:30] Speaker B: And it does, like, it feels juvenile. [01:17:33] Speaker A: Because there is actually some cursing and like Divergent from my memory. Right. Like a cup. Not much. No. Maybe not. Maybe movies might have added maybe. [01:17:41] Speaker B: I don't remember. [01:17:42] Speaker A: Anyways. Yeah, no, I completely agree. It. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting. It just, it felt so. I was like, this feels really juvenile compared to even like Divergent, which already felt like we were really on just a precipitous downward slope. We really started like high and just. [01:18:00] Speaker B: Slowly, really, really getting down to the dregs down here. No, because my impression of. And I meant to bring this up like in the prequel episode and I forgot, like, my impression of Divergent was that it was a knockoff of the Hunger Games and my impression, Maze Runner was that it was a knockoff of Divergent. And I feel like I was right. [01:18:22] Speaker A: Pretty accurate. [01:18:23] Speaker B: I was correct in that assessment. [01:18:25] Speaker A: It. It. Yeah. Even if it's not a knockoff, I think you could say they're like the, the version is a poor man's version of the Hunger Games and that this is a poor man's version of Divergent, which is. [01:18:37] Speaker B: That is really saying something. [01:18:39] Speaker A: Divergent is not good. But yeah, it's. It's. [01:18:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:18:44] Speaker A: But again it's hard to say that because it's clearly made for 10 year olds. And like we're. We're trying. We're reading this as 35 year old people who fucking do a critical analysis of literature going hey, this, this blockbuster summon summer ya lit, clearly designed for 10 year olds is not a masterpiece. It's like, okay, yeah, like, I don't know, it feels a little like overly harsh of what it is. [01:19:08] Speaker B: But then there's. There are also so many properties that are written for younger people that are great. [01:19:16] Speaker A: Absolutely. [01:19:17] Speaker B: And that have great character work and that have great themes. [01:19:20] Speaker A: Absolutely. I don't know. [01:19:23] Speaker B: Okay. Anyway, back to the movie. I thought that the fight circle thing that they did at the party felt really true to a group of unsupervised teenage boys. I've never been an unsupervised teenage boy, but it felt right, felt accurate. [01:19:42] Speaker A: 100%. [01:19:43] Speaker B: I also really liked that Thomas and Gally like duke it out and then shake hands. [01:19:48] Speaker A: Yes. And such a. That was one of the. I had that note. Cause it was such like. I was like, oh my God already. Gally's character is so much better than it is in the book because he feels like a real person, right? [01:19:58] Speaker B: Well, yeah, in the book he's like just immediately dialed up to 11. And his only personality trait is that he hates Thomas. And this just felt. Felt so much more nuanced where like they kind of butt heads initially but then they come to like an understanding. [01:20:13] Speaker A: And you can tell. And the movie makes it very clear that like he's an. But he. His assholery in the movie is motivated by his desire to protect the Glade and the people in the Glade and. [01:20:24] Speaker B: Which then informs his actions further on down the line. [01:20:28] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:20:31] Speaker B: You know, storytelling. [01:20:32] Speaker A: Which to be fair to go back a little bit on my point about the ending with Galley, I at least understand what the movie was doing there. Is that having him not be controlled by the creators or whatever by Wicked at the end means that his motivation there at the end is. It follows from everything we know about him that is true of him trying to Protect the Glade and the people in the Glade and him being an. Because of that. And he sees Thomas as the person responsible for ruining all of that. And so that's why he shows up at the end. And it is. It is a. Is a complete character like arc for him that is. And his final moment is seemingly final moment is motivated by everything that led up to that as opposed to just being like, well, the bad guys brain controlled him to throw a knife at, you know, like. [01:21:19] Speaker B: I understand that at least. [01:21:21] Speaker A: That being said, I still think I prefer the books version just because I. Yeah. I don't know. [01:21:27] Speaker B: Well, I'm just interested to see if the books do anything with the like mind control. [01:21:32] Speaker A: That's true. [01:21:33] Speaker B: I could puppetry. [01:21:34] Speaker A: I could change my mind later come book three or whatever where if Gally shows back up or if he doesn't, whatever happens with all of that could change my reading of what the first movie did. We'll see. [01:21:49] Speaker B: Absolutely. I also thought that Thomas like bumping his head and it knocking his name back into him. It's a little cheesy, but I thought it worked. [01:21:59] Speaker A: Yeah. I didn't mind them not remembering their names initially because especially in the first moment I thought it worked pretty well. There was something. There was some detail that I liked where like when he couldn't remember his name. [01:22:11] Speaker B: Yeah. And Alby's like, don't worry, it'll come back to you. [01:22:14] Speaker A: Yeah, it's the only thing they let us keep or something. Which I thought was a good line. Which it might come from the book. I can't remember but. But I also really liked that moment. The knocking his head and remembering was a little cheesy. But I like the moment where he stands up and he goes, thomas, my name is Thomas. And they're all like, yeah. And they're like. Like that camaraderie moment where they're like he remembers his name and they like celebrate. That was like a fun. [01:22:35] Speaker B: Like there's another actually now that I think about it, like element that the book needed that it was missing was camaraderie. Amongst all of the books, 100%. We only ever interact with them like separately. We never see them really as a group. [01:22:50] Speaker A: And they all seemingly hate each other. Not each other, seemingly. Some of the people, they all hate Thomas though. Or like most of them seem to dislike Thomas. And even then, even apart from each other, like Galley doesn't seem to get along with like anybody. And I agree entirely. Like that moment where they all are like, yeah, we're in like you know, they're like, in this weird, shitty situation together and they form. Anybody who's. [01:23:12] Speaker B: They have formed their own community. [01:23:14] Speaker A: And the movie at least gives us a tiny bit of that. And it's like, yeah. [01:23:19] Speaker B: Yep, yep, yep. I also really liked the wall with their names carved into it. Another element of world building. A nice kind of visual history. [01:23:29] Speaker A: I also like the very specific, specific detail that it was always galley. That chiseled the name off the wall. [01:23:34] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:23:35] Speaker A: Because he. He, like, again, just reinforcing the idea that he cares about all these people and the community they have. And like, it. It. It's like. It's a. It's a. We get to see that him being the one that chisels it off the wall because it. Like he takes that pain on himself or whatever, you know, I don't know. [01:23:53] Speaker B: It's just, again, informs. Little subtle informs his action. He's motivated by something other than just blind hatred of Thomas for reasons we don't know. [01:24:03] Speaker A: Yep. [01:24:05] Speaker B: We already talked quite a bit about Ben, but I thought him going feral without us already knowing that he was sick was more ominous and interesting. Cause by the time he attacks Thomas in the book, we already know that he was stung and was going through the changing. So we already know there's something up with him. But in the movie, he just kind of. Kind of shows up. [01:24:27] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:24:27] Speaker B: And is acting weird and you're like, oh, okay, that's weird and creepy. [01:24:31] Speaker A: Yeah. Another big change that the movie makes that I thought was really smart is that in the book, it's described that they explain that every month a new kid comes up. So once a month they get a new kid that comes up in the thing. But initially it was a group of like 10 of them. I don't know how many, but they say. [01:24:51] Speaker B: It says that they started with a small group. [01:24:53] Speaker A: There was a small group that initially came up in the thing together, and then they started the Glade. [01:24:58] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:24:58] Speaker A: The movie changes that because they go, you know, one kid comes up a month who was the first one. And. Or, you know, they set up, like. Because they set up the idea that one person comes up a month and they go, that means somebody was here for a month by themselves. And he's like, that was Alby. And so they explained that Alby, who is the leader, had to spend a month alone in the Glade. And that this made that. That month being alone by himself made him value the community they have created and the friendships and the bonds they have together. And it's just like, oh, my God. [01:25:29] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:25:30] Speaker A: Why? [01:25:30] Speaker B: It added so much dimension to his character that was like just simply absent in the book. He doesn't have any character trait other than being the leader. [01:25:40] Speaker A: He's the leader in the book. Yes. Yeah. Another thing in the book that drove me absolutely crazy eventually, oh, my God. Was that tomorrow. Thomas constantly thinks about how weird the way his memory works is that he can't remember. Like he remembers. [01:25:58] Speaker B: He can remember, like general things. [01:26:00] Speaker A: Yes. Like he knows what a pig. Like the note I have here is that he. When he sees the cows and the pigs and stuff, he knows that they are called cows and pigs and he knows what they are, but he doesn't remember any context of where he would have seen them before or how he knows why they're called pigs and cats. Cows. And that's a good. Like, that's a thing you need to at least touch on a few times. Because it's a weird part of the book is like they have some of their memory but not other. Like they have this weird. [01:26:25] Speaker B: It's a specific kind of memory loss. [01:26:28] Speaker A: Yes, that is. And so you need to explain that. But the book, like every other chapter has a line where Thomas goes, yeah, this weird way my memory works where I only remember some things but not other things. And it happens like constantly. [01:26:43] Speaker B: The way that the book belabored this idea just drove me absolutely insane. Because you only need to do that a couple times. [01:26:52] Speaker A: I'd say three or four times, maybe. [01:26:54] Speaker B: Yeah, three or four times. [01:26:55] Speaker A: And then like maybe some different contexts, like a new thing. [01:26:59] Speaker B: Like he was thinking about it in context of remembering different stuff. [01:27:03] Speaker A: Yes. [01:27:04] Speaker B: But the way that he describes it and like thinks about it, it's the same, almost the same language every single time. [01:27:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:27:13] Speaker B: Just. [01:27:15] Speaker A: It's tiresome. It grew really tiresome. Yeah. [01:27:18] Speaker B: Another thing that just kind of bothered me about. I don't know if I would call it like characterization or world building or what was like. There's a moment close to the beginning of the book where so Thomas comes out and he's like initially confused and doesn't know what's going on. And then as he's like settling down to go to sleep, the book is. It says suddenly the Glade, the walls, the maze, it all seemed familiar, comfortable. [01:27:53] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:27:54] Speaker B: And I. I just didn't like that. I thought it was bad. [01:28:00] Speaker A: It's just, it's this foreshadowing for when we find out eventually that Thomas was involved in designing the mage, the maze. [01:28:08] Speaker B: I thought it was ham fisted. [01:28:09] Speaker A: I'm not saying it isn't. I'M just saying that's what it is, is it? It's setting up when we. We will ultimately find out that he was, you know, involved in designing the maze and the test or whatever. I mean, we don't know to what extent or how yet. [01:28:21] Speaker B: Right. [01:28:22] Speaker A: We just know. [01:28:23] Speaker B: I mean, we still don't really know that. [01:28:25] Speaker A: No, that's what. That's what I'm saying is, like, mentioned at the end of the book that he was involved. We don't know to what extent or how yet. But I assume we will find out more about that backstory down the road. But we just know that he. He says, like, I was involved. Teresa and I helped build the maze or whatever. Oh, okay. So, yeah, that's what it's doing. I liked the movie dropping the detail when they do the banishing that, like, quite a few of the kids seem, like, psyched about the banishing and, like, excited about it. And also specifically, Chuck is excited about it. Is excited about it. He says, like, Chuck has like a weird grin, like a kind of like. I don't know. I don't remember the exact line. But he notes, Thomas notes that Chuck seemed to seems happy or excited about there being a banishing, which makes no sense for Chuck's character based on the rest of the book at all. [01:29:14] Speaker B: No. [01:29:15] Speaker A: Especially when you see how horrible the banishing it. Like when the banishing plays out. Assuming Chuck would have seen one before. [01:29:22] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:29:23] Speaker A: Which is why he's, like, excited about it. Or maybe he has maybe the idea. Which if that's the case. [01:29:27] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:29:28] Speaker A: It doesn't say that. I don't know. [01:29:29] Speaker B: Yeah, maybe the idea is that he. He hasn't and he doesn't really know. [01:29:32] Speaker A: And he doesn't know what's in store yet. And so he's just like, oh, this thing's happening. He's kind of excited for the idea of it without really know. But the. The book doesn't go into any of that. So I don't. I don't know. I took it to mean, like, he has seen it before and it's like, excited for himself. [01:29:44] Speaker B: That's also how I interpreted it, which. [01:29:46] Speaker A: Makes no sense with his character. And like I said, I just thought, especially with the way the movie changes the characterization, to have them be more creating that sense of camaraderie amongst the kids and stuff. It wouldn't make any sense for them to be, like, psyched about forcing one of their people to go die in the. [01:30:03] Speaker B: I mean, I guess I could see maybe you have a couple psychos. [01:30:08] Speaker A: Sure. There's at least, you know, you get a group of 50 kids or whatever it is, you're gonna have one or two. [01:30:12] Speaker B: There's probably at least one or two that are like, oh, yeah, sure, yeah, you might be a serial killer. [01:30:18] Speaker A: Yes. [01:30:18] Speaker B: But. But particularly Chuck being excited by it does really doesn't make any sense with any of his other characterizations. Few and far in between, as they were. [01:30:30] Speaker A: Yeah. A little detail that I liked is that when Thomas goes out into the maze, when Alby and, like, when he. [01:30:38] Speaker B: Runs in to help Alvy and Minho. [01:30:40] Speaker A: Are coming back and they're not going to make it. And the scene plays out in the movie and the book, and Thomas decides to go out to help them in the book. It's. It. I think it would work, too. In the book, he just steps forward into the maze and it shuts behind him. [01:30:53] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:30:54] Speaker A: In the movie, we see him at the last second decide, and he has to, like. He, like, runs because the walls are really thick. And he, like, squeezes through, like, as they're shutting. And it's really claustrophobic and intense and dramatic. And I thought that was fun. And because it's in slow mo and, like, Newt tries to grab him and, like, I just thought that scene played out with a lot of drama and intensity that. I also see the merits of the book's version, but I think I prefer the movie's version. [01:31:21] Speaker B: No, I agree. [01:31:22] Speaker A: I really liked that once he gets into the maze, that Minho doesn't just immediately abandon him, like. Cause he's like, we gotta help Thomas or Alby. And then the Griever, he hears the Grievers coming. And Minho in the book is just like, I'm out of here, this. And leaves. In the movie, he sticks around and Minho helps him tie Alby to the vines and haul him up. [01:31:44] Speaker B: Yeah, they're, like, both working at it together. [01:31:46] Speaker A: And then the Grievers get close enough, and he's like, we got to get out of here, and he bolts. [01:31:49] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:31:50] Speaker A: And I thought that made a lot more sense because it just felt more in line with what I expected Mino's character to be. Is that, like, he's very practical and he understands the dangers of the maze, but he's also seemingly kind of brave. And, like, yeah, he's the leader of the Albie. A lot. Like, wouldn't just abandon him. You know what I mean? Like, immediately, at the first sign of risk, like, I don't know. It just. I thought the movie's version of handling that felt Way more in line with what I thought Minho's character was than the book's version. Again, just better character work, I guess. Guess. [01:32:23] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:32:26] Speaker A: I also liked having them squish the Griever in the walls. I thought that was fun. [01:32:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Especially without. With the absence of the. The griever hole and the cliff. I thought that was good. And I also liked Thomas tricking it into getting tangled in the vines. Yeah, I thought that was also a good moment. [01:32:43] Speaker A: A detail in the book that was really annoying to me is that when they're out in the maze that night and they have to. They. They talk about how they have to survive the whole night. Night. I could be wrong. I don't remember that there ever being like the classic book thing of like in a. Not an ellipses. But what is the. What is it called where you get like the. It's not a page break. Maybe it's a page break. But like, you know what I'm talking about where there's like a little bullet in the middle and it's like denotes like a passage of time or whatever. [01:33:07] Speaker B: Yeah, I can't. [01:33:08] Speaker A: I don't remember that being in the book. But in the book the night was way too short. Like it's. I think we're with Thomas in real time through the night. And seemingly night lasts like an hour in the book. Whereas in the movie there's a clear moment where we transition forward in time slightly and then the sun starts rising. And I just thought it made a lot more. I thought the time made a lot more sense in the. [01:33:34] Speaker B: You know, I read this note and I like. As I was going through the notes that you put in and I read that note and I was like. I was initially like, oh, I don't remember noticing that. But then I was going back through my reading notes and on page 136 I wrote, Damn, is dawn coming on already? That seems fast. [01:33:53] Speaker A: That's what I'm saying. They didn't even do anything. They run for like 10 minutes and then it's like morning. And you're like, what? And I just. I just thought the movies passed. [01:34:01] Speaker B: I mean maybe. Maybe the nights are shorter. It is. It's like an artificial environment. [01:34:06] Speaker A: That's true. We don't know how long the nights actually are. That's fair. Although they do say noon I think in the book several times. So I assume it's supposed to be a 24 hour day. But because they talk about when they're running out at one point they're like, it's just past noon. Time to go back. Or something like that. So a little detail in the movie that I thought was really funny is that when Thomas gets back from breaking the rule of going into the maze while not being a runner to try to save them, and they get back and they're trying to figure out if they need to punish Thomas or not for breaking this rule, despite the fact that he saved Tom, Alby and Minho, they're like. They're like, you know, like, arguing about it. And at one point, I think it's. After Minho is like, well, we should make him a runner. And Chuck tries and fails to start a Thomas chant. Amidst all the noise. He's like, thomas, Tom, Thomas. He just kind of fades out. I thought that was really funny. [01:35:00] Speaker B: No, it was a great moment. [01:35:02] Speaker A: Not in the book. And you said this earlier, but once again, like 50 Shades, like the adaptation of 50 Shades, everyone in the movie just acts way more like actual human beings and not like weird alien robots. [01:35:17] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:35:17] Speaker A: There's one of the things in this book that drove me insane is how much vagary there is with interactions and how a normal human being would not let that fly. Why? Yeah, so much of the book was me going, no, no, no. Demand answers. Ask more questions. What are you doing? Please ask more questions. I need you to ask more questions. Or demand that they give you answers or why aren't they giving you answers? It makes no sense that they're not giving you answers. [01:35:43] Speaker B: No, it makes no sense. I. This made me want to throw the book across the room, literally on page nine. I wrote in my notes, oh, my God, just give him the Cliff Notes, for crying out loud. And then the book continued to do this weird thing where they, like, like, refused to tell him anything. [01:36:03] Speaker A: Oh, my God. [01:36:04] Speaker B: Until, like, halfway through. [01:36:06] Speaker A: I have. The example that I have here is. And this was like, I think, like, halfway through the book. Yeah, it's. It's when Alby is. I think it's when they get back with Alby and he's, like, going through the changing. And Thomas says, is he changing? And somebody responds to him. You've got a lot to learn. And. And. And Thomas in the book, his. In his inner thought is Thomas wanted to scream. He knew he had a lot to learn. That was why he was asking. And I'm like, I'm glad. I guess I'm glad that the book. [01:36:33] Speaker B: At least realizes how annoying this is. Yeah. [01:36:36] Speaker A: But it's so infuriating because he just keeps doing it forever. And it's like, oh, my God. And the movie does such a better job where there's still mystery about what's going on, but you don't feel like everybody's playing, like, a weird prank on Thomas. Like, it's in the book. It's like, tell him things. [01:36:54] Speaker B: Tell him. Tell him anything. [01:36:55] Speaker A: Like, what are you doing? Like, what is happening? It's so annoying. [01:36:59] Speaker B: And it's especially frustrating because. Because it doesn't make sense. If the name of the game is survival. [01:37:07] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:37:07] Speaker B: Then your new arrivals should have all of the details up front. [01:37:12] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:37:12] Speaker B: Because the lack of knowledge is what's gonna put everybody in danger. [01:37:16] Speaker A: Yeah. The only thing I can think is that this is. Because I. The only thing I can think is that this is somewhat of a metaphor for, like, being a kid and, like, going to high school. You get to high school and there's all these older kids who have been there for a long time. [01:37:36] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:37:37] Speaker A: And they know about how everything works there. And nobody will tell you anything. Cause you're just the dumb freshman who showed up. And everybody, like, gives you shit and nobody will tell you anything. And you know what I mean? The only thing I can think is that this is trying to parallel that experience. [01:37:52] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:37:53] Speaker A: To some extent. That being said, it's not nearly that bad in real life. Like, it's not nearly as, like, vague and, like, infuriating. Infuriating in real life as it is in this book. But that was the only thing I could think, is that he's trying to capture that kind of experience. You know what I mean? Like, that's the only thing I could think. I don't know. It was my. [01:38:14] Speaker B: I don't know. I. That feels like a lot of credit for the writing, maybe. [01:38:18] Speaker A: I. I don't disagree. Based on, you know, just. [01:38:21] Speaker B: I. I feel like James Dashner wanted to continue and drag out the mystery and didn't know how to do that. [01:38:33] Speaker A: Without just having everybody be as vague as possible. [01:38:35] Speaker B: Other than the answer. Yeah. Other than having all of the other characters refuse to divulge any information. [01:38:41] Speaker A: I agree. That is most likely is that it was the easiest way the author could come up with to have the mystery drawn out and continue so that we feel like we're pulled along and we're only getting. Getting, like, bit by bit, kind of figuring out how this world works. But it's infuriating. Maybe it wouldn't be infuriating if you're 10. I don't know. I think I would have found it infuriating even as a kid. [01:39:03] Speaker B: I think I would have Found it incredibly frustrating. [01:39:07] Speaker A: So frustrating reading it. And like I said, that was my only thought. So it's one of those two things. It's either just poor writing because it's an attempt to keep the mystery going, or it's this attempt to create this feeling, like a parallel feeling to again, like going to high school or something, or. Or moving into the next stage of your life and being kind of gatekept out of, like, the stuff you need to know by older, meaner kids. You know what I mean? I don't know. It's the only thing I can think that if it's intentional, that at least has some merit to it. I agree with you, though, that given the way the rest of the book is written, that it doesn't feel like that's likely. That it does feel more likely that it's just kind of a bad attempt at prolonging the mystery. [01:39:50] Speaker B: But I know we already talked a lot about Gally, but I really cannot get over how much more his character worked for me in the movie. His distrust of Thomas actually feels reasonable and not just immediately cranked up to 11. I wrote this after Theresa shows up in the. In the. [01:40:11] Speaker A: The box. [01:40:11] Speaker B: The box, yes. Could not think of what it was called. [01:40:14] Speaker A: They don't call it an elevator, which I found really annoying. I understand that it is a box because it's a box, but whatever. It's also an elevator. [01:40:20] Speaker B: It is, but, like, because we had that moment of understanding between the two of them, and then, of course, when she shows up and immediately says Thomas's name, that feels like a perfectly reasonable reaction from Gally to be like, what the hell? [01:40:37] Speaker A: Why does he know you? [01:40:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [01:40:39] Speaker A: No, 100%, absolutely. I really liked that instead of the map room in the book, in the book, there's a map room where the runners go every night and they draw a map of the maze. The parts that they scouted in the movie, they changed that into this room, this building that has, like, this very intricate maze. I understand why it's a map room in the book, but I also like the movie's version of, like, seeing. [01:41:03] Speaker B: We love a scale mobile diorama. [01:41:06] Speaker A: It's so funny. We're. We're re watching andor right now. And it reminded me so much of the. The model that. Yeah, Renick or whatever. Not Renick, whatever his name is, makes of the. The base they're gonna raid because it's even in a similar type of building where it's like this stick hut that has like a hole where the light. [01:41:24] Speaker B: The Diorama is made of more sticks. [01:41:26] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. It's like. I was like. That's like the same. I was like, did they get, like, the same set designer to, like, make this? Like, I thought that was really interesting. It was like they looked very, very similar. But again, I just. It's a more visually interesting way to do it from. [01:41:37] Speaker B: For sure. [01:41:39] Speaker A: I did love that. Once Teresa finally wakes up from her coma, after she comes out of the box, the first thing she does is climb a tower and start hurling rocks at the. And specifically, I loved the line. Whereas they're like, hey, we need you. She's like, we got a problem. And then they come running over and Chuck is like, did you see her, like, hurling rocks off? And I don't remember his whole line, but he just goes, girls are awesome. I thought that was really funny. [01:42:07] Speaker B: Yeah, No, I loved that scene. Like, I was like, honestly, that might be how I'd respond if I woke up with no memories and a glade full of teenage boys. [01:42:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:42:16] Speaker B: Scale the nearest tall thing and start throwing shit. [01:42:19] Speaker A: Yep, absolutely. I like the detail that the movie added that Thomas also has, like, the memory slash thought of the Wicked is good thing. It makes sense because him and Teresa are, like. [01:42:32] Speaker B: Yeah. Seemingly psychically connected. [01:42:34] Speaker A: Psychically connected and seemingly, like, maybe had, like, similar roles in the organization prior to. Because they're both. They say they're both responsible for, like, designing the maze. So they're. They're like some sort of special class above these other kids who are in the maze. Seemingly. I don't. I don't know. We'll find out more. I assume it's something. Some point. I liked the little totem that Chuck, like, carves for his parents and then asks Thomas to give it to them for him. And then Thomas gives it back to him and is like, promise. That's when he promises to give him out that scene. Again, this scene is mostly. Nailed it. Like, the. It's almost a direct one to one from the book where this scene plays out. But the little addition of the totem. [01:43:11] Speaker B: I thought kind of a little visual thing. And then that. And then that can come back at the end. [01:43:17] Speaker A: He has it later, after Chuck dies, he takes it with them and that sort of thing. Yeah, it's a little on the nose in that Chuck has a totem and he is a totem of, like, whatever. And like. Yeah, but whatever, it's fine. I liked it. I really liked that in the movie we get to see there's at least one distinct section of the maze that they call the blades. That is different from the rest of the maze. [01:43:43] Speaker B: Yeah, in the book, it's. I guess we don't know for sure. [01:43:48] Speaker A: But it looks like. [01:43:48] Speaker B: Yeah, it's implied that it's all just the big stone walls. [01:43:52] Speaker A: We assume it's all vaguely the same stone walls or whatever. I liked that they get to this point that he's like, oh, this is the blades. And it has these different types of walls that move differently. I just thought it was interesting, you know, to mix it up a little bit. Also, they actually do some running to escape after they find. [01:44:07] Speaker B: How about that? [01:44:08] Speaker A: After they find the Griever hole. And they do running in the book, to be fair. But the running in the book is mostly boring. It's just like them jogging to places or whatever. Whereas this, we get like an action sequence where they're, like, running and stuff, which is. [01:44:21] Speaker B: They're in the maze. They're running. Yeah, they're maze runners. [01:44:24] Speaker A: There you go. I did, like, when they get attacked by the Grievers in the Glade later on when they all bust in, they're like in the little. They call it the gathering place in the book, but it's the homestead in the. Or they call it the gathering place in the movie. It's the homestead in the book, essentially, eventually. But Chuck gets, like. One of the Grievers comes through the wall and, like, grabs Chuck and it's like, pulling him out. And Thomas grabs him and he's like pulling him back in. And Thomas yells at him, chuck, don't let go. And Chuck yells back, no. Which I thought was really funny. It was really good. And then also the little detail where Alby then gets grabbed right after that and gets taken and we assume killed. [01:45:06] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:45:08] Speaker A: And his last moment in the movie is as he's being pulled out. Thomas grabs him and tries to save him, but is unable to. And he says, get them out. Like, get out of the maze. Again, just reiterating Albies, you know, how much he values this community and the people and the kids in this community. And he wants Thomas. He's like, dude, you know, I couldn't save them. You need to save. [01:45:31] Speaker B: Do your best by them. [01:45:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Cause I couldn't, you know, I couldn't save them. And you contrast this to the book scene where Alby sacrifices himself post changing. And I literally couldn't even tell what I was supposed to feel about that because he's just like. He just kind of like jumps on a Griever. And I think the book implies, like, he thought maybe that would be the sacrifice because there's the whole thing where the Grievers will take one person. [01:45:57] Speaker B: Right. [01:45:58] Speaker A: And I can't. The thing that's confusing about that scene in the book is I can't tell how much of that is. Is Alby being motivated by a desire to save everybody by sacrificing himself, thinking maybe that will be all the Grievers need or whatever. [01:46:10] Speaker B: Right. [01:46:11] Speaker A: Versus him being like suicidal from the Griever serum. [01:46:16] Speaker B: Yes. [01:46:16] Speaker A: And I was like, I don't like. [01:46:17] Speaker B: Not wanting to go back to the. [01:46:19] Speaker A: Old world and I don't know. And so I didn't even know how to feel about Alby's like death. I was like, I don't. I don't even know. And it also is undercut because Gally literally did the exact same thing, like two scenes earlier where Galley comes in, Galley shows back up. It's a whole different thing where he has already undergone the changing. And it's very different in the book than the movie. He's already under. Gone the changing. And when the Grievers attack, he shows back up and then comes in and like gives him a warning. [01:46:45] Speaker B: Disseminated information. [01:46:47] Speaker A: Yeah, he's like. And he gives like some ominous warning about how the Grievers are going to kill one of them every night or whatever. And then he just jumps onto a Griever the same way Alby does like two scenes later. [01:46:57] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:46:57] Speaker A: And so I was like, well we just saw Gally do that, so Albie. I don't know, I. It's just thought it was like again, movies version is just way better. Also, I know nothing about Albie in the book and do not care about him. So it's like, who, who cares? And again, the biggest thing is what I just talked about though, and now that it's really crystallizing is that I don't even know why he did it. [01:47:15] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:47:15] Speaker A: I don't know if it was an. [01:47:16] Speaker B: Attempt at self sacrifice or if he's. [01:47:18] Speaker A: Just committing suicide because he doesn't want to live. I don't. I don't know. And I don't find that a compelling mystery. I find that I would like to know who, what one of our main characters, like why he kills him himself. Like is it. Yeah. [01:47:32] Speaker B: I thought the whole Griever attack was better in the movie. I think the idea that they're programmed to just come and kill one person every night could be interesting, but I didn't think that the book did anything interesting with it. So I like. [01:47:46] Speaker A: Oh, you mean it wasn't interesting when they show up every night and take some unnamed character we've never heard of and don't care about it. [01:47:53] Speaker B: Got Jeff. [01:47:54] Speaker A: Yeah. And then we get like, they go into the maze one night and they come back and they're like, oh, who did they take? And they're like, they took some guy. You've never again. It's just like, who cares? I don't know who any of these people are. [01:48:07] Speaker B: No. But I. I liked the movie. Moved the pace along. [01:48:10] Speaker A: Yes. [01:48:12] Speaker B: And I. I also thought it worked well as an action scene. I like. I liked the part where they were hiding in the cornfield. [01:48:18] Speaker A: Yeah. You get like the Jurassic park, like. [01:48:20] Speaker B: Yeah. It also kind of reminded me of science. [01:48:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [01:48:24] Speaker B: And I liked that Teresa, like, Molotov cocktailed one of them. [01:48:28] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. [01:48:29] Speaker B: She has, through the homemade green alcohol. [01:48:32] Speaker A: Lights him on fire. That was fun. Yeah. No, I agree. I thought it was pretty good. The movie adds a little detail that I don't think was mentioned in the book, where we see that when Thomas was in his previous life working for Wicked or whatever, before he comes into the maze, he was, like, watching them, the kids in the maze, like, the whole time. I don't think that's ever mentioned. [01:48:50] Speaker B: You don't? [01:48:50] Speaker A: I guess you could infer that. [01:48:52] Speaker B: But, yeah, the book was pretty vague about what they actually did for Wicked. [01:48:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Whereas there's a little more detail in the movie. Like a slightly more. But, yeah, they seem to be like, why he's. Like, they were watching them, like. [01:49:03] Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm interested to see if that detail in the movie is. [01:49:06] Speaker A: Comes up in later books. [01:49:07] Speaker B: Yeah. If that's informed by something else in the books or if that was something the movie just made up. [01:49:12] Speaker A: Yeah. I also liked at the end that Gally decides to, like, after the big attack happens, Gally hauls them out and is going to offer them Teresa and Thomas to the Grievers. [01:49:23] Speaker B: Yes. [01:49:23] Speaker A: That feels like, again, like a much more reasonable explosion. [01:49:25] Speaker B: Explanation for Galley's actions follows from everything else we've learned about it. [01:49:29] Speaker A: He wants to protect the Glade, and he thinks he can do it by getting rid of the two problems that were the two people who, when they showed up, all these problems started. And so he's like, maybe if we sacrifice you, that'll fix it. Blah, blah. But then they get saved by. Because then we get split into these two different factions. And even. Even in such a short amount of time, the movie does such a better version of setting up these, like, opposing factions within the Glade of, like, the people who want to go and like escape and fight versus the people that want to stay behind. The book has that, but it's all just kind of like it happens in the background really. [01:50:01] Speaker B: Yeah. And it's like who cares? Because we don't. [01:50:03] Speaker A: Again, we don't know. [01:50:04] Speaker B: We don't know any of these people. [01:50:05] Speaker A: And famously we don't know. There's no like figurehead amongst the staying people. [01:50:11] Speaker B: Yes. [01:50:11] Speaker A: That we know. It's like there was some of the people decided to stay. None of the named characters that you. [01:50:16] Speaker B: Know though nobody important because again galley's. [01:50:19] Speaker A: We think dead at this point. Yeah. This is probably controversial to people who like this book, but I honestly think cutting most of the puzzle nonsense and reducing it down to what is the order that the sections open up in or whatever. And like the numbers, they punch the numbers in the order that those sections of the maze open or something. [01:50:40] Speaker B: Yes. [01:50:40] Speaker A: It's still convoluted and dumb, but not. [01:50:43] Speaker B: Nearly as convoluted as the book. [01:50:45] Speaker A: I will say the puzzle stuff with the letters and whatnot works okay in the book. Like were I 12 reading that, I would think that was a fun little puzzle that they solved. But I think it would be a complete mess to explain in the movie in any sort of like truncated way. [01:51:00] Speaker B: No, I agree. I thought that was a good change. And there still is kind of a hidden code. Yeah, it's just a lot more digestible than what's in the book. This was another place where I felt like Dashner wanted to do something really clever. [01:51:13] Speaker A: Yes. [01:51:14] Speaker B: But it was just too convoluted and he didn't really think through knew what exactly he wanted. [01:51:20] Speaker A: I. I don't know this one. I'll say. Like I, I don't disagree. I felt that I was like. It feels a little convoluted and weird, but it also feels like maybe the right level of complicated for the age target of this book. If that makes sense. You know what I mean? Like it's. It's pretty simple and like it's convoluted but also like relatively simple to like solve. I don't know. I found it. I was like, yeah, okay, sure. Like for 10 year olds, like that's a fine puzzle or whatever. Again, it just would have been a complete mess to try to do in the movie, I think. I don't, I don't know how you would have done it. I like the change of not mentioning that all of their names are nicknames based on famous. [01:52:02] Speaker B: Yeah, that was weird. [01:52:03] Speaker A: Seemingly like, like so Newt Is named after Isaac Newton. [01:52:07] Speaker B: Yes. [01:52:07] Speaker A: Thomas is Thomas Edison. [01:52:09] Speaker B: Thomas Edison. Thomas. And Alby is Albert Einstein. I don't know any of that. And then I was reading that and I was like, okay, so who's Frypan named after? [01:52:17] Speaker A: So he must have a second name. [01:52:18] Speaker B: He must have Fry Pan. [01:52:20] Speaker A: Must be his name, nickname or whatever. [01:52:24] Speaker B: Because that cracked me up. [01:52:25] Speaker A: Well, and then I was like, there must be. I was like, minho must be some like Chinese philosopher or, you know, scientist or something. I don't know. I say Chinese. I don't know if that would be the right nationality. But yeah, yeah. I. Those are the only three we get are the most obvious ones, which is Isaac Newton, Thomas Edison and. Oh, and then Chuck is Charles Darwin. [01:52:46] Speaker B: Right. [01:52:46] Speaker A: Yeah. Anyways, I thought that was kind of silly. [01:52:49] Speaker B: Galley, I presume. Galileo. [01:52:51] Speaker A: Galileo, yes. One would assume. [01:52:53] Speaker B: One would think. [01:52:55] Speaker A: And so I mentioned this earlier, but I put this in better in the movie just because we were both making fun of how silly this was in the book and how much. I couldn't decide. Decide how much the book thought this was like a big surprise reveal or not. [01:53:08] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:53:09] Speaker A: But at some point we get to the. They, they. They were like, okay, well, we gotta figure out how to get to the computer or whatever. [01:53:17] Speaker B: Right. [01:53:17] Speaker A: Where could it be? I don't remember how we get there, but they basically we get this big, like, moment at the end of a chapter where it's like. And he realized what they had to do. They had to go into the Griever hole. And it's like, yeah, obviously. And this is what we alluded to earlier in the same way that Chuck's emotional dynamic is the only thing ever interesting set up in the book. So you know he's going to die. The Griever hole is literally the only thing in the book that isn't like. [01:53:51] Speaker B: That is like set up as a point of interest. [01:53:53] Speaker A: That is set up as a point of interest or intrigue. And so obviously they're going to go into the gravel. [01:53:58] Speaker B: Obviously we're gonna go into the graver hole. [01:54:00] Speaker A: I could not tell if the book thought that. That mom like surprise or if it was just supposed to be dramatic. [01:54:08] Speaker B: I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. [01:54:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I have no idea. Also, I have better in the movie is we talked about it a little bit. Like the way they kill the maze in the movie is by just punching in the number of the. At least I assume that kills the. Or is there another thing they do after that that opens the door. But does that also kill the Maze. I can't remember. Remember. [01:54:29] Speaker B: I don't think they kill the maze in the movie. I think they just open the door and get out. And then. And then we don't know if the maze is still going or not. [01:54:37] Speaker A: Anyway, so in the. In the book. So they punch in the numbers and they get out of the maze in the movie. In the book, they get down into the tunnel through the Griever hole, and they find a computer monitor and the whole code of letters that I was talking about earlier with the puzzle, they. They came up with it. Like, six words that are float, catch, bleed, death, steady, stiff, push. And Thomas knows that those words are words that need to be punched into a computer terminal to shut down the maze. Yeah. Or to set down the maze. And they get down there and they type them all in. And then they get Theresa's like, it won't let me type in push. It's not taking it. [01:55:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [01:55:17] Speaker A: And they're like, I don't know what to do. And they're like, the Grievers are still alive and fighting them or whatever. And then in maybe the most obvious moment ever that I was like, well, clearly. Really? That last word doesn't. [01:55:28] Speaker B: You don't type that in. It's an instruction. [01:55:30] Speaker A: It's an instruction. You hit, like, enter or something. Like, you push the button or something. [01:55:34] Speaker B: Which would be obvious enough. [01:55:36] Speaker A: Obvious enough. But then, literally, Chuck goes, hey, maybe you should push that giant red button that says kill the maze on it. And she goes, oh. Oh, yeah, That's a good idea. I was like, what? It's so. So I had this in better movie. [01:55:54] Speaker B: Because it's so stupid. It is stupid. And I put I disagree as a joke. It's not better, but it did legit make me laugh when I was reading. [01:56:03] Speaker A: The book, to be fair. I think it's supposed to be kind of funny. I think it's intended to be, like, a joke that Chuck sees that and is like, hey, maybe push the button. And they're like, oh. Like, I think it's a. It's a gag, but it's a gag in a weird spot, in my opinion. [01:56:16] Speaker B: Yeah, that's fair. [01:56:17] Speaker A: It's like the most dramatic moment of the. Like, Everybody's just like, 20 kids just got murdered by Grievers. And then we're like, I don't know. Maybe hit the button that says kill the man. [01:56:26] Speaker B: Yeah, but nobody with a name. [01:56:28] Speaker A: That's true. That is true. Not yet. It's not Chuck's time yet. [01:56:32] Speaker B: Oh, speaking of Chuck, though. So I wrote Initially that I preferred Chuck accidentally getting shot in the scuffle over him diving in front of Thomas. Because in the book, it's this big dramatic moment where Gally throws the knife and then Chuck is like, no. And dives in front of Thomas. And in the movie, he, I thought it seemed like he like, got a stray bullet. [01:56:59] Speaker A: Yeah. So I, I, that was not how I remembered it. And so I went back to double check and I watched the scene again on YouTube and Chuck definitely like, okay, he's not like a slow mo dive or anything, but he, he intentionally moves in front of Thomas right as Galley is pulling. [01:57:18] Speaker B: In that case, I prefer the movie downplaying him. [01:57:21] Speaker A: It's. [01:57:22] Speaker B: It's not as big of a moment, for sure. [01:57:24] Speaker A: It's definitely not as big. It. But he definitely does put his body in front intentionally so, which I thought worked either way. I didn't really mind it, but it is, it is. The movie's version of it is more. Feels more realistic. [01:57:37] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a little more nuanced and a little cheesy. Corny for sure. My last note here is that this is a triumph of the medium more than anything, but I like showing all of the scientists alive at the end better than reading a memoir. [01:57:56] Speaker A: Yeah, we get this fun shot where the camera pushes down, like this boardroom table, and we see all these scientists sitting at a table. And then this woman walks up with her back to the camera and then turns around and it's the scientist we just saw shoot herself in the head. And she's like, wiping fake blood off her forehead, which is a fun reveal because in the book we just read a. It's like an epistolary and you know. [01:58:15] Speaker B: And I think that works fine for the book. I just prefer the movie's version. [01:58:20] Speaker A: Yeah, I had this in movie. Nailed it, but I thought it was fine. The movie's version is little more dramatic and fun, but the. I thought the books version was fine. Of. Yeah, you just get like the, Literally like the memo she sends out or whatever, and we just get to read it. Which I, I don't mind that as like the, the tease setup. I think that works. All right. We got to get to a handful of things that the movie nailed. As I expected. [01:58:46] Speaker B: Practically perfect in every way. [01:58:48] Speaker A: Nailed the opening just starting right on Thomas coming up in. In the box. Yeah, I said earlier, like, the little additional detail of him trying to run away, setting up his character with some breadcrumbs right out of the jump. But I thought that was fine. I like that the Movie incorporates or I say I like the movie Nails incorporating the slang. Clunk is their version of shit, and I think they use it a couple times in the movie. They definitely keep most of the slang. We hear them say, like shank and clunk and greenie and all these other things. Things. I don't know if they ever do. The. There's like one specific one that's Essentially means like, okay. Or like. I agree. Where they say, like, good. [01:59:29] Speaker B: They say good that, good. [01:59:30] Speaker A: That. I don't remember if the movie does that or not. But they keep most of the slang. [01:59:34] Speaker B: Yeah, most of it. [01:59:35] Speaker A: Without making a big point of it, which I like. They never explain it, which I thought worked. [01:59:38] Speaker B: I honestly would have put that in Thunder better in the movie because I thought that the book over explained and. And over lingered on the slang it does. None of which I felt was hard to pick up. [01:59:50] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I thought the movie mostly nailed the Grievers. And by nailed, I mean did about as good a job as they could with a fairly vague. [02:00:00] Speaker B: Fairly vague thing. [02:00:01] Speaker A: Yeah, that was like, hard. So I have a couple of descriptions of the Griever from the book here that I'll read. It was too dark to make it out clearly, but odd lights flashed from an unknown source, revealing blurs of silver spikes and glistening flesh. Wicked instruments, really. Okay, Wicked instruments. Tipped appendages protruded from its body like arms. Like arms. A saw blade, a set of shears, long rods whose purpose could only be guessed. The creature was a horrific mix of animal and machine and seemed to realize it was being observed. Here, let me find. There's. And then I have a second part. I know I had a part 2 of the description that was maybe more detailed. [02:00:37] Speaker B: Yeah, I think you're right. This. This one is more detailed. [02:00:40] Speaker A: It looked like an experiment gone terribly wrong, something from a nightmare. Part animal, part machine, the Griever rolled and clicked along the stone path. Its body resembled a gigantic slug, sparsely covered in hair and glistening with slime, grotesquely pulsating in and out as it breathed. It had no distinguishable head or tail, but front to end, it was at least 6ft long, 4ft thick. Every 10 to 15 seconds, sharp metal spikes popped through its bulbous flesh, and the whole creature abruptly curled into a ball and spun forward. Then it would settle, seeming to gather its bearing, the spikes receding back through the moist skin with a slick slurping sound. It did this over and over again, traveling just a few feet at a time. But hair and spikes were not the only thing protruding from Its body. Several randomly placed mechanical arms stuck out here and there, each one with a different purpose. A few had bright lights attached to them. Others had long menacing needles. One had a three fingered claw that clasped and unclasped for no apparent reason. When the creature rolled, those arms folded and maneuvered to avoid being crushed. Thomas wondered what or who would create such frightening, disgusting creatures. So the book nails some of those like we see the three pronged like thing. The movie just decides I can kind of envision what the book's going for. And I think it's creepier and weirder than what's in the movie because the movie just kind of makes them like insecty. More insect, I think. But we keep a lot of the details. I don't know. I think they did about as good of a job as you can for something so nebulous. [02:02:07] Speaker B: I was kind of six of one on the green. I thought the movie design was creepy but not particularly innovative. [02:02:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:02:14] Speaker B: Or unique. [02:02:14] Speaker A: I would 100% agree. Yeah. [02:02:15] Speaker B: But I thought that making them be like slug like or like they're almost described like a pill bug kind of was more unique than the spider scorpion creatures. Now that being said, I do think that the movie's version works perfectly fine. [02:02:30] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:02:30] Speaker B: And is like still creepy and gross. [02:02:32] Speaker A: My note was that I did wish they rolled like they're described like the like gooey like rolly goo balls that that then the arms shoot out of and that's creepy and weird and I can kind of envision what that would look like. But I also think that would be really hard to translate. You could do it, but that would take some very talented artists. Whereas the spidery scorpion y kind of thing just obviously they still keep a lot of the details while making it a more obvious thing to digest visually. [02:03:02] Speaker B: Also, if I may be a pedant for a minute, it in the book, Thomas describes them as not having a distinct shape, but also says that they're bulbous. And bulbous literally means bulb shaped. [02:03:18] Speaker A: Oh, does it? [02:03:19] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:03:20] Speaker A: I don't think I knew that. I have always interpreted bulbous as just like round. [02:03:25] Speaker B: I mean it's round. [02:03:26] Speaker A: Not even just round, but like round and lump. Like lumpy. Kind of. [02:03:30] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean it's also used like that to be fair. But I just needed to be pedantic for a minute. Just like you can't be both bulbous and not have a distinct shape in my opinion. [02:03:44] Speaker A: I see. I would, I would use those words. I'm just saying I would. I'm not saying it's Correct. I don't know. But I would. I would use those words or I. I would. [02:03:52] Speaker B: I did say I was being pedantic. [02:03:54] Speaker A: Fair enough. I thought Teresa's Rivals pretty similar obviously to the book, except they cut the line, everything's going to change. Which I think is probably a good choice. [02:04:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [02:04:03] Speaker A: Because in the book she says that out loud and it's a little like. [02:04:08] Speaker B: Yeah. A little thing that I thought was better in the movie was I liked that she gasped Thomas's name. [02:04:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:04:14] Speaker B: As soon as she woke up. Because I thought that was a really easy way to create the friction that they needed for the last half of the story without being too convoluted. [02:04:22] Speaker A: Yeah. We get the explanation in both the book and the movie that the disease that came after what I assumed was the flare was referring. Because we. We hear the term the flare in the book at some point. And then I was like, oh, it's going to be like a solar flare that causes post apocalyptic event. Which we find out that is the case. It was a solar flare or a coronal mass ejection or whatever that. That messed up the ecosystem. But the flare specifically is the disease that came after that. [02:04:52] Speaker B: Right. [02:04:53] Speaker A: And the movie includes that. They also. The book mentions. I don't remember if the movie mentions this or maybe vice versa. Versa. Somebody says only the richest can be treated. I think the movie says this. [02:05:04] Speaker B: I think the movie said that. Yeah. [02:05:06] Speaker A: That like only the richest can be treated, but there is no cure. And then the maze was a test to find people to defeat the flare, essentially. Which we'll figure out how. I don't understand that at all. It's my biggest thing. And we'll talk about this. I think it might be in my final verdict. But just I'm still really interested to see how the plan of this maze and all this shit connects back to solving this problem of the post apocalypse in the very same feeling. It's a very similar feeling I had to divergent of. Like, what the fuck? [02:05:37] Speaker B: How do these things. How do these things connect? [02:05:40] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:05:41] Speaker B: And I called this better in the movie. But I keyed in on like a slight difference in what they're supposedly looking to learn from the maze experiment. The movie says that they're studying their brains to see what makes them different from previous generations. To figure out, like, why they aren't affected by the flare. [02:06:01] Speaker A: Because they say some people are like, immune. [02:06:03] Speaker B: And I was like, okay, fine. [02:06:05] Speaker A: And that's like straight up divergent. [02:06:07] Speaker B: Divergent? [02:06:07] Speaker A: Kind of. [02:06:08] Speaker B: Yeah. Like their brains are different. [02:06:09] Speaker A: Their brains are Different. They're trying to figure out like why, how, or what. [02:06:13] Speaker B: But the book says that they're trying to find the smartest among them because surely that person. Slash those people will be capable of finding. Finding a cure for the flare. But if that's the goal, then they did very bad science by putting in Thomas and Teresa and basically forcing their experiment along in the direction that they wanted it to go. [02:06:38] Speaker A: And that gets back to my point. I don't understand how any of this nonsense they're doing gets them towards their goal. [02:06:43] Speaker B: No. [02:06:44] Speaker A: Anyway, either goal. Whether it's. [02:06:46] Speaker B: I agree. [02:06:47] Speaker A: Figuring out what the difference in their brains are and. And why they're immune to the disease, or if it's. We need to find the best of the best of the best with honor so they can fix the problem. Either one of those avenues. I don't. I'm so interested to see how the book rationalizes the decision of the maze creation and all of this as a reasonable avenue towards those things. Yeah, it's insane. [02:07:11] Speaker B: I don't know. And we might not even find out because this is a five book series. [02:07:16] Speaker A: I did not know this until literally I started. I was happy halfway through this book and then I looked at the back of it and I was like, wait a second. What is the kill order? That's not one of the things we're doing. Son of a. We're not going to finish this. [02:07:29] Speaker B: No. Cuz I'm not finishing this series. [02:07:32] Speaker A: I'll read the Wikipedia summary for the last two and figure out. [02:07:34] Speaker B: We'll figure it out. [02:07:36] Speaker A: Little detail. They nail Chuck dying, obviously. I think it's probably better to have him get shot with a gun than have a giant knife chucked into his chest. But it's fine. Whatever he's. She dies and then obviously, like you said or mentioned earlier, Ava being alive and discussing the future plans, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, nails that. Setting up the next movie. That is it for the movie. Nailed it. We do have though, before we get to odds and ends, our returning summer segment because this is another one where we've never read it before. Never watched the movies before. It's time for Katie and Brian Predict the Maze Runner series. [02:08:14] Speaker B: It's gonna happen. Edward X Is. [02:08:16] Speaker A: So we're gonna take turns going back and we each have three predictions. I will say that I realize I should probably have predicted what I thought was going to happen in the next book. One of my predictions at least is just like a vague general prediction broadly for the series. So either way, it's fine. We'll make it work. We're going to go. Go ahead. What? [02:08:35] Speaker B: Oh, I wasn't going to say anything. [02:08:37] Speaker A: We're going to take turns going back and forth, giving our predictions of things that we think are going to happen in the series down the road, either in the next book or. Or the. The third one, or maybe even after that. We'll see. [02:08:49] Speaker B: We'll find out. [02:08:50] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:08:50] Speaker B: One way or another. [02:08:51] Speaker A: My first prediction, because it feels like maybe the easiest prediction ever, assuming that you're correct about Gally still being alive in the movie, in the same way that I assumed he was alive in the book still when this ended, which would make sense that he was alive in the movie, because I think he's alive in the book. So. [02:09:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [02:09:07] Speaker A: My prediction is that he returns at some point, is able to overcome the programming or whatever happened to him, and he redeems himself by sacrificing himself to help our heroes take down Wicked or do whatever. He becomes a good guy, whatever feels very easy, comes back, becomes a protagonist, and then dies. Yeah. [02:09:27] Speaker B: My first prediction is that Theresa will have an about face and end up being a villain. And I think this mostly because James Dashner strikes me as the type of guy who would do that with his only female character. [02:09:43] Speaker A: See that? I could see that. How dare you. On page, there's two female characters based. [02:09:48] Speaker B: On things I have learned of him. [02:09:51] Speaker A: Sure, I could see that. My second prediction, also a slight at Dashner. Dashner recycles the ending of this book one more time, and the Scorch Trials ends with our heroes thinking they're safe, having defeated the Scorch Trial, or whatever the fuck it's called, only for it to be revealed to us. Us that that is still all a part of Wicked's master plan. And they're still in the experiment. And it's time for Phase three. [02:10:18] Speaker B: That feels like a really safe prediction to me. [02:10:21] Speaker A: There's no way I actually predicted that. Thinking like, this is probably going to be false. But I want to predict it in case it's true, because it's so hacked that I need it to be true. But, like, surely it's so hacked that he won't do it. But we'll see. [02:10:34] Speaker B: My second prediction is that Wicked will resurrect CH as some kind of grotesque bioweapon similar to the Dead Tributes coming back as mutts in the Hunger Games. [02:10:46] Speaker A: I could see that. I could see that. And then my final prediction is that they encounter a group from one of the other maze trials. I had this spoiled for me that there are other maze trials. When I read the back of the Scorch trials as I would finished, I was like, oh, let me read the back of this. And it said they run into a group from a another. [02:11:05] Speaker B: Okay, okay, okay. [02:11:06] Speaker A: So I know that. I know there's another group or something. I don't know the specifics of it, but they encounter a group from one of the other maze trials. And that group is all girls except for one guy. [02:11:18] Speaker B: Nice. [02:11:18] Speaker A: And that guy falls for Teresa. And it kicks off a classic YA love triangle. I hope. [02:11:25] Speaker B: I love that. [02:11:26] Speaker A: I originally wrote this differently. Originally had it as they run into another group and now that group also has a singular girl. And I was like, no, no, no. It needs to be more different. Why not? It's a group of all girls and there's one dude in it. There we go. [02:11:40] Speaker B: All right. My last prediction. I wanted to do a silly one because I kind of miss doing the silly predictions. [02:11:47] Speaker A: Yes. [02:11:48] Speaker B: So my last prediction was kind of silly to me. I don't think that's probably. It probably has more chance of being true than mine does. [02:11:55] Speaker A: Probably so. [02:11:57] Speaker B: So my last prediction is that Frypan is going to separate from the group to go on his own quest that is somehow cooking related. [02:12:04] Speaker A: That's. You stole this from Game of Thrones. This is. What's his name? I don't remember. He's even got a food related name. Pot pie or pork pie. This is the pork pie subplot in Game of Thrones where he abandons them to learn how to be a cook and go on his own cooking subplot lot. But no, that's a fun. I. I think that would be great. I hope that happens for Fry Pan. [02:12:31] Speaker B: I liked Fry Pan just as Fry Pan was great. He was. [02:12:34] Speaker A: He was good. I wish. I hope he has more screen time in the next movie. All right, that was it for our predictions. We'll see if any of them come true. We do have a handful of odds and ends to get to before the final verdict. [02:12:56] Speaker B: Thomas Brody Sangster, I think is how you say his name. Who plays Newt. He's like our age. [02:13:04] Speaker A: Yes. [02:13:04] Speaker B: He looks perpetually 12. [02:13:06] Speaker A: He really does. [02:13:07] Speaker B: Even when he was like younger, I think kind of just still looks 12. Yes, he always looks 12 in everything. [02:13:14] Speaker A: Yeah, he's definitely gone. He's like the Patrick Stewart, except instead of looking perpetual, like 45 or 50, he just looks perpetually like. Yeah, like a teenager. It's crazy. [02:13:27] Speaker B: Part of the problem that I had trying to read this book especially like early on was every time they talked about the Grievers, for some reason, my brain conjured that scene from Labyrinth where they're in the tunnels and they're talking about the Cleaners. And it's like a. Like a thing that comes down the tunnel and. [02:13:47] Speaker A: Yeah, it's a big metal, like. [02:13:49] Speaker B: Like a big metal rotating thing with, like, spikes on it. And then there's the reveal that it's like. It's like a guy on a bike. Yeah. [02:13:56] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:13:57] Speaker B: In the movie specifically, though, the reveal of the Griever, like, hanging over Thomas gave me big Lord of the Rings shelob vibes. [02:14:06] Speaker A: It's the exact. It's the exact framing of the shot when Shelob is coming down over Frodo. I think think it is. Yeah, it is. Like, the exact same framing of that scene. Probably an intentional reference, if I had to guess. The scene where Minnow, Minho and Thomas run into the maze after Thomas spends a night in the pit. And then the next day they got. It's like their first day running. They're like, let's go. And they run into the maze. That moment, to me, just screamed for a oner. Following them, like, where the camera, like, spins around and follows them. And then. Then, like, stays with them in a single take as they, like, go through a bunch of turns. And so we can actually see, like, some of the, like, geography of the maze in, like, a single take. I just. I thought it was gonna happen. The camera starts moving that way and I was like, oh, we're gonna get a cool, like, single take where, like, they run through the maze for, like, you know, a couple a minute or something. And it's like, all one take. That would be fun. And it doesn't happen. [02:15:02] Speaker B: I'm kind of surprised because I. I thought the, like, cinematography and stuff was good. Was pretty good. [02:15:07] Speaker A: Serviceable. [02:15:08] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, not. It's not incredible or groundbreaking, but, like, pretty good for what this is. [02:15:14] Speaker A: Absolutely. [02:15:15] Speaker B: I had a moment as I was reading the book when we find out that the walls in the maze move. But this was before we find out that they, like, always move in the same sequence. [02:15:25] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:15:26] Speaker B: Where, like, they're like, oh, we can't solve this maze. The walls move at night. And I was like, well, no wonder you fuckers can't solve it. It's unsolvable. It moves. [02:15:36] Speaker A: Yeah. [02:15:37] Speaker B: Come on. [02:15:38] Speaker A: Absolutely. So there's this one scene in the book where there's a description of the beginning of the changing from Thomas's perspective. And it's like, what he's Seeing and going through as he like is under the effects of these drugs and the venom and stuff. And this is one of those moments where, for me, where you can really see the difference in quality of writing from a book like this versus something like Dune. And now to be fair, fair, Dune's obviously for an older audience and it's written, but the, the descriptions of like what Paul is seeing and like the consciousness expanding stuff of like when he takes the water of life or whatever and like goes through his transformation. The way that is written is so I, I don't even know how to describe it. It's so trippy and, and conceptually dense and visually dense in what it's describing that it's like, holy shit, this person is a very good writer. And then when I read this, I was like, yeah, that's kind of what I would expect you to write for this. That's how I would write this scene. And I'm not Frank Herbert, so I don't know, it's one of those stark moments of like. Cause there's little moments of action scenes or whatever or certain character interactions where the writer writing, the quality of writing, it's like, yeah, this is how you write a conversation. Like, it's like they say a line, then they say line and whatever. But those kind of descriptions of describing very, very dense abstract concepts visually through text is very hard. And again, it's just those, that's a place where that kind of difference in quality of writing really stick. Stands out. [02:17:28] Speaker B: So I, I wrote this down in my notes. I don't remember the context of this quote altogether. It's during an interaction with a Griever, I wrote down disgustingly sinking inches into its gushy skin. And just like that, I got a new entry for my collection of cursed word combinations. Yep, gushy skin, Gross. [02:17:57] Speaker A: Before we wrap up, we want to remind you you can do us a giant favor by heading over to Facebook, Instagram, threads, Goodreads, Blue sky, any of those places. We would love to hear what you have to say about the Maze Runner. We're also going to have a short amount of time for this one because we got to turn that prequel around quick. So look out immediately upon listening to this if you want to get your comments in, because we would love to talk about those on the next prequel episode. You can also help us out by heading over to Facebook or Apple, podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to our show, drop us a five star rating, write us a nice little review. We would appreciate that. And you can really help us out by heading over to patreon.com thisfilmislit Support us there for, you know, 510 or 252515 bucks a month. Get access to different things at different levels, including bonus content. Every month we put out a bonus episode that'll be coming out here very soon, so look out for that for June. Katie it's time. [02:18:46] Speaker B: We're also behind on that. We never did. [02:18:48] Speaker A: We got to catch up. We'll catch up. It's fine. We'll get get there. Double episode. Katie it's time for the final verdict. [02:18:57] Speaker B: Sentence fast. Verdict after. [02:19:01] Speaker A: That's stupid the only thing I knew about the Maze Runner before we started reading it is that it's often compared to YA Fair from the same era, the Hunger Games, Divergent, even Twilight to some extent. So I was expecting a similar reading experience and I guess it wasn't too far off. But I'll be on honest, it felt like arguably the weakest of its peers, and it really boiled down to one main point. For me, the book's entire hook is the mystery box style storytelling it employs. I saw a review or a blurb or something like that that described the book as Lord of the Flies meets Lost. And while I think that's a pretty accurate description, we have a bunch of kids in a survival situation. There's your Lord of the Flies stranded in a strange environment that holds mystery upon mystery that our heroes have to figure out. Figure out. There's your Lost. I think the Maze Runner is missing the main component that makes both of those properties work. Characters that we actually care about. The book's premise requires our characters to know nothing about themselves apart from their names, and as a result, the reader is also left knowing basically nothing about these characters. Why should I care? When Alby dies, the sum total of his characterization has been been that he's the leader. Who is Theresa? What do we know about the sole female character in this book other than our protagonist thinks she's hot? The reason Lost works on a very similar premise is because while we spend half of that show prying apart the mysteries of the island, we spend the other half of that show delving into the backstories of our characters. We discover who they were before the island, why they're there, and it informs how we feel about their actions on the island. Island. The premise of this book simply doesn't allow for that. So we're left with a bunch of characters that I don't care about trying to unveil a mystery that feels completely out over its skis like three quarters of the way through the book. I turned to you and went, I have no idea how they're going to make the premise of this maze and what they're doing to these kids make any kind of sense when the plot behind it is revealed. It just feels way too convoluted for me to believe that there's some sort of logical justification behind all of this. About five minutes into the movie, I knew it would win. As we've mentioned, this reminded me so much of both Fifty Shades and Divergent, where an incredibly underwritten book is fixed by screenwriters who at least have some grasp on how stories should work. This movie is hardly a masterpiece, but it actually gives us characters. They're still pretty thin, but compared to the book, they may as well have been written by Joyce. It also manages to do more compelling world building in a single scene than the book manages in some 360 pages. So yeah, the book is very rudimentary ya lit. It's not really bad. It's just not very interesting. The movie manages to be a bit more interesting than the book, so for the first installment of our 2025 summer series, I'm giving it to the movie. [02:21:51] Speaker B: I hate to say that I think the best thing I can say about James Dashner's the Maze Runner is that it's meh. The writing itself is serviceable, but not very interesting. The world building has some moments, but overall it was skeletal at best. The mystery was both not quite intriguing enough to outweigh how annoying being totally in the dark was, and also at times, too obvious, like when the answer to everything was located in literally the only place that Dashner bothered to set the griever hole. But perhaps the book's worst sin was its character work. [02:22:31] Speaker A: Work. [02:22:32] Speaker B: Woof. Aside from being boring by design, the book also deployed quite a bit of tell don't show with its characters. For example, on page 326, Thomas says that Newt can be a loose cannon sometimes, but I didn't feel like we ever saw him act that way. And then on page 329, he says that Teresa seems just as tough as anybody here and like, okay, fine, fine, but we haven't seen her do anything. And then there's Chuck, who the narrative really, really, really wanted me to care about. But there's exactly one sympathetic scene with Chuck, and the rest of the time he's just kind of around. Fortunately, the movie was able to leapfrog over the majority of my issues with the book, even though we still don't know Much about the characters having the benefit of actors to watch smooths that over. The film also nipped and tucked the mystery into something more digestible, as well as nixing a handful of elements that I found particularly grating in the book, like the Glader's refusal to share information with Thomas and Thomas's incessant inner monologue about how weird his memory loss was. Was Is the Maze Runner the worst thing I've ever read? No, that dubious honor still belongs to 50 Shades of Grey. May it never be unthroned. And I can definitely see how it would appeal to a younger person, especially if that person was a reluctant reader or not very genre savvy. Two things that Dashner does excel at are pulling the reader along long and blatantly pointing them towards the elements that need to be noticed. However, I'm not a reluctant reader and I do consider myself pretty genre savvy. [02:24:29] Speaker A: Also not tense. [02:24:30] Speaker B: Yeah, so those elements of the book made it annoying for me instead of appealing. And when you add in how much more nuanced and human and human like the movie managed to make the characters, you get a piece of media that's way more enjoyable to consume. Assume in the Battle of the Maze Runner series, the first trial goes to the movie. [02:24:51] Speaker A: What's next? [02:24:53] Speaker B: Up next, we are scooting right along to your birthday episode and we are going to be talking about the Shawshank redemption. [02:25:02] Speaker A: Absolutely. [02:25:04] Speaker B: A 1994 film based on a Stephen King novella. Rita Hayworth and the Shawshank Redemption. [02:25:11] Speaker A: Yep. It's been on the list for a while. Obviously it's a very, very one of the most well regarded movies ever made. It was for a long time. It was number one on IMDb's top 250. I don't know if it still is. I would bet it's close. If it's not, it's. It's one of those movies that I don't know, you almost never meet a single person who goes I don't like that movie. [02:25:30] Speaker B: I've never seen it. [02:25:32] Speaker A: That's fascinating. [02:25:32] Speaker B: So we'll see how I feel about it, I guess. [02:25:35] Speaker A: I think you'll like it. I. I have seen this movie probably half dozen times or so over the years. I've seen seen it pieces of it a lot more than that because it used to be on TV all the time. But I've seen it in its entirety front to back probably five or six times and I've always really liked it. Definitely a period in my life years ago where I might have said it was my favorite movie a long time ago. I'd been a long time since that would be the case. But in college I think there was probably a short period where I said it was my favorite movie. But I remember really liking it. I had no idea it was a book when I saw it all those times years ago. And I had no idea it was a Stephen King book, which is crazy. So I'm very interested. I say crazy. I don't know if it's crazy, but it's not what I would expect. You know, it's not a. It's not a horror film at all. So I'm interested to see and to see what the movie or what the novel is like, because I know what the movie's like. But yeah. So as we mentioned earlier, we're hoping to. And we'll talk more about this on the prequel. We're hoping to get right back on schedule. It is a short enough book that I should be able to read this very quickly. And then hopefully we can get right back on schedule and we'll just put out a prequel like over the weekend or something like that. So that's the plan, but we will have more on that shortly. Until that time, guys, gals, non binary pals and everybody else keep reading books, watching movies and keep being awesome. Sam.